To take the plunge or not without a demo

[insightman]

MINI is not for everyone, range is definitely a turn off for many people.

The MINI Cooper SE would be a difficult choice as the only car in the household. The charging infrastructure is still pretty thin in some places, making longer trips difficult.

Back in October, when it was still OK go places, I started planning a 240-mile Spring excursion in my promised (sigh) MINI Cooper SE to see a buddy who used to drive a 2002 MINI Cooper S. I expected to drive up the middle of Michigan on I-75, assuming there would be charging stations along that popular route. However, a search on Plugshare showed that this trip would be a big problem for a BEV with 110-mile range because there are essentially no public DCFC charging stations along that major route. Using the few available Level 2 charging stations could add 6 to 8 hours to the length of the trip--or even more if there are lines at those charging stations.

I haven't even had my first experience at a public charging station (we always charge our Clarity PHEV at home), and I'm already wondering about the future of public charging for non-Tesla BEVs. The companies who operate charging stations won't install more of them until there are more BEVs needing them and if BEV sales take off, there will be lines at the few existing charging stations before those companies respond. Perhaps Tesla should allow non-Tesla BEVs to charge at their charging stations--at twice the price Tesla drivers pay--for emergency charging. That would be another way Elon Musk could be both a hero and a villain.

 

[F14Scott]

The MINI Cooper SE would be a difficult choice as the only car in the household. The charging infrastructure is still pretty thin in some places, making longer trips difficult.

Back in October, when it was still OK go places, I started planning a 240-mile Spring excursion in my promised (sigh) MINI Cooper SE to see a buddy who used to drive a 2002 MINI Cooper S. I expected to drive up the middle of Michigan on I-75, assuming there would be charging stations along that popular route. However, a search on Plugshare showed that this trip would be a big problem for a BEV with 110-mile range because there are essentially no public DCFC charging stations along that major route. Using the few available Level 2 charging stations could add 6 to 8 hours to the length of the trip--or even more if there are lines at those charging stations.

I haven't even had my first experience at a public charging station (we always charge our Clarity PHEV at home), and I'm already wondering about the future of public charging for non-Tesla BEVs. The companies who operate charging stations won't install more of them until there are more BEVs needing them and if BEV sales take off, there will be lines at the few existing charging stations before those companies respond. Perhaps Tesla should allow non-Tesla BEVs to charge at their charging stations--at twice the price Tesla drivers pay--for emergency charging. That would be another way Elon Musk could be both a hero and a villain.

Such use at the Superchargers would require adapters, either installed at the Supercharger sites (big expense), or bought by the owners (also a big cost - my little 40A Tesla -> J1772 adapter was about $250), plus the Superchargers' software would have to be rewritten to include non-Teslas. Factor in the Tesla owners' ire at having to share "their" scarce slots, and you've got a whole slew of problems to overcome just to sell a little electricity to your competitors' customers.

 

[SmartElectric]

Perhaps Tesla should allow non-Tesla BEVs to charge at their charging stations--at twice the price Tesla drivers pay--for emergency charging. That would be another way Elon Musk could be both a hero and a villain.

F&kc that! No thanks! Mini SE charging at piddly 46 kW while I wait in my Model S that can charge at multiples of that, no thanks. Tesla got it right, the OEM's can figure out charging infrastructure if they cared, but given the compliance Mini hardware conversion BMW did, it's pretty obvious BMW is not trying to give customers the best experience. I may love the Mini SE, but let's not conclude Tesla is a charity, it's not going to happen, supercharging is a key differentiator, as is the underlying battery tech in the Tesla cars to support 250 kW charging!

 

[F14Scott]

F&kc that! No thanks! Mini SE charging at piddly 46 kW while I wait in my Model S that can charge at multiples of that, no thanks. Tesla got it right, the OEM's can figure out charging infrastructure if they cared, but given the compliance Mini hardware conversion BMW did, it's pretty obvious BMW is not trying to give customers the best experience. I may love the Mini SE, but let's not conclude Tesla is a charity, it's not going to happen, supercharging is a key differentiator, as is the underlying battery tech in the Tesla cars to support 250 kW charging!

As a Tesla owner, if we were talking about any other big-battery BEV, I'd totally agree with you. 50kW for DC charging would never cut it for road trips, DC charging's raison d'etre.

But, the SE is not a road trip machine. I'm not sure mine will ever leave the Houston metro area. I'd need DCFC equivalent every 100 miles, to take it cross country, and even then, I'd be 90 minutes on the road, 30 minutes charging.

50kW completely charges the SE's tiny battery in 30-45 minutes, on par with a V3 Supercharger filling up a TM3.

 

[insightman]

50kW completely charges the SE's tiny battery in 30-45 minutes, on par with a V3 Supercharger filling up a TM3.

MINI says charging from 0-80% requires about 35 minutes (not that charging from 0 is a common occurrence), but the last 20% will take nearly another hour. Are they being conservative again (as they are on the 0-60 mph time)? I'd like to know the 20% to 100% charging time because that's a more likely scenario.

 

[F14Scott]

In our Tesla, the 0 to 80 is much more common. The Supercharger screams at 600 MPH until 60% or so, then tapers. By the time you're at 90%, you're charging at L2 speeds.

On road trips, Tesla's nav works the backside of the curve to minimize charging time, running you down to 10% or so, spending 15 minutes on a Supercharger at 600 MPH for 150 miles range added, and then pressing on to the next station. The only times it will recommend you top off is if there is an unusually long run between Superchargers.

As the SE is a runabout, I could see myself having a big day of errands in Houston and desiring to pop onto a DCFC station for 15 minutes (about $4, here) to give me about 40 extra miles.

 

[interestedinEV]

both the dealers do not want to negotiate, claim that the price is the price and the discount is the $7500 tax credit. Both the local dealers are owned by Penske Automotive and seem pretty set on full price

 

[insightman]

both the dealers do not want to negotiate, claim that the price is the price and the discount is the $7500 tax credit. Both the local dealers are owned by Penske Automotive and seem pretty set on full price

Are you a Costco member? Some MINI dealerships work through Costco to reduce the price. Motor City MINI, my distant, replacement MINI dealership (MINI of Ann Arbor is closing), participates with Costco, but the salesman I spoke with today didn't know if there was a deal specifically for the MINI Cooper SE. He will get back to me next week regarding the possibility of a Costco discount and the possibility of locating and shipping my missing SE.