Range Anxiety and non-Teslas

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I'm warming to the idea of a BEV, slowly but surely. A week ago I would have said PHEV for sure because of the occasional long trip and short range of BEV's but after some research, it appears that Tesla, both for their superior range and incredible charging network (even here in funky Augusta, Ga there are 20 superchargers) would be a great choice. I drove a model Y yesterday and of course was impressed. I don't need to go into details about that here... Just a fun car to drive and very tech oriented and of course fast.

I also drove an e-tron and a Kia Niro. I actually liked the Niro EV, not as much as the MY but it is about $10K less and this was the loaded version; even had A/C seats! But it has just over 200 miles of range; I liked the e-tron but again just over 200 miles and very expensive (but plush).

So I guess I have two questions:

1. For you Tesla owners, does anybody have range anxiety for long trips these days? I was sort of thinking of holding out until the MY is bumped up to 400+ miles but maybe that's too much fear? I'd get the long range of course with I think 320 mi or so.

2. For non-Tesla cars like I mentioned above with 200 mi range, are long trips more problematic? I looked at the EA site and there is nothing between Augusta and say, Atlanta. Plug in America is better I guess but I didn't go into all the plug options and if some are only for say, hotel guests.

Anyway, I'd like to hear what you'all think.
 
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EA is only one company. To get a better picture, use the PlugShare app, as this tries to show you all chargers. You have to start by fiddling with the filters - to find just DCFC, you need to turn off everything except for CCS/SAE. Otherwise the map is cluttered. Hotels tend to be just level 2 - meaning about 7kW AC, which works well for people staying overnight.

For your example of Augusta to Atlanta, it looks like there are several ChargePoint along the way. Just looking at a couple of them, it looks like most have just 1 station with 50kW. I would add that the ChargePoint app shows you whether individual stations are in use or not (and I presume offline due to a fault or other such problems). It is also worthwhile to look at the comments in PlugShare - you get a feel for whether a given charger is problematic or not.

All this being said, I routinely make 150 mile trips in mine, and never need to stop for charging. Maybe a biological break, but that's it. If I start from one end with 80% on the battery, I arrive with about 35% left on the battery. In my case, I do my charging when I get to the destination.
 
Another app/website you ought to be aware of (no matter what car you end up getting) is abetterrouteplanner. While not perfect, it helps you plan a route for longer trips, and makes suggestions for charging stops.

At the end of the day, this is only a rough guide. There might be a different charger you prefer (maybe there is a restaurant you like or some such). So it is really kind of a starting point to plan a trip more than anything else. But it lets you play the "what if I took a trip to <X>" game from the comfort of your own home.
 
I've been wrestling with the same situation. I'm debating between a Kona Electric and a Model 3 AWD LR. I prefer the Kona Electric (I really like the Tesla too) but I just can't get past the Tesla charging network and charge times. Part of the issue for me is not just the charging network but the available stalls at each network and the charging speed. EA is pretty good with charging speeds but in the North East Chargepoint and EVGo which are really common typically have 50kW chargers and one or two stalls at each stop and their ease of use can be problematic. Charging speed won't be a big deal if you have a Kona or Niro, I believe they can't charge any faster than 76kW or something close to that whereas the ETron, Model Y or 3 charge significantly faster if the charging station is capable.

Someone may need to correct me but a vehicle like a E Niro charging at it's fastest speed to go from 10-80% should be around the 45 minute mark. I believe a Tesla Model 3 is around 30 minutes using a Supercharger. I have no practical experience, just lots of reading and watching so get confirmation or maybe someone here can verify.

Now having said all that there are lots of strategies for charging on a road trip. One of the most common I've learned for an all day drive is stopping more frequently and only charging for 15 minutes or so.

ericy is right, give the plugshare site or app a good look over, it has lots of filters and detailed info about each charging station. Look at common routes you would typically take on a long trip and see if it works for you.
 
Clamps said:
Charging speed won't be a big deal if you have a Kona or Niro, I believe they can't charge any faster than 76kW or something close to that whereas the ETron, Model Y or 3 charge significantly faster if the charging station is capable.
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ETron in particular has pretty low efficiency. So while it might charge faster, in the end the lower efficiency means that a given charge won't take you as far. If you look at it in terms of minutes of charging per mile of travel, then the ETron doesn't look so hot.
 
I have driven up to 800 miles in a day with no problems finding chargers. I have done a number of simple day trips over 200 miles and still no problems. Usually I will plan charging around a meal time. Even if I am doing fast food by the time I plug in the charger, walk to where ever I am getting food and walk back and eat I am pretty much ready to go and the car is charged. Yes it takes a little longer than gassing up an ICE car In the end it only adds about an hours time to a days worth of travel if you plan ahead. If I am driving all day I start with a full charge early, then stop for breakfast after about 200 miles grab lunch at 400 miles dinner at 600 and destination charge at 800. Its a little slower but not unreasonable.
 
Fastnf said:
I have driven up to 800 miles in a day with no problems finding chargers. I have done a number of simple day trips over 200 miles and still no problems. Usually I will plan charging around a meal time. Even if I am doing fast food by the time I plug in the charger, walk to where ever I am getting food and walk back and eat I am pretty much ready to go and the car is charged. Yes it takes a little longer than gassing up an ICE car In the end it only adds about an hours time to a days worth of travel if you plan ahead. If I am driving all day I start with a full charge early, then stop for breakfast after about 200 miles grab lunch at 400 miles dinner at 600 and destination charge at 800. Its a little slower but not unreasonable.
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Its nice if the chargers are all available, around these parts there are not enough yet and an expected wait (not too long) is not unusual.
I look forward to the day when that becomes a non-issue.
 
linux said:
1. For you Tesla owners, does anybody have range anxiety for long trips these days? I was sort of thinking of holding out until the MY is bumped up to 400+ miles but maybe that's too much fear? I'd get the long range of course with I think 320 mi or so.
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I have a 2019 Std Rng Plus Model 3, initially rated at 240 mi but now with ~3% degradation, ~233 mi. I have no range anxiety but there are some segments where I'll use an L2 charger to fill the gap or sleep in a motel with a free breakfast and charger. With rare exception, Little Rock-to-Tulsa or Little Rock-to-Joplin MO, most SuperChargers are about 120-150 miles apart.

Our typical trip scenario:
  • 100% charge overnight either at home or motel
  • Drive to furtherest SuperCharger you can reach
  • Subsequent segments:
    • stop at fast food place for bathrooms, take-out sandwiches, and beverages
    • drive to SuperCharger and eat and stretch, ~15-20 minutes
    • leave with 30-40 miles of reserve range to next SuperCharger
  • Repeat segments until tired of driving
We also use PlugShare to map L2 and NEMA 14-50 chargers. So if traffic forces a change of plans, we can use them for an hour or so to add 30 miles range each hour.

Note, there is a new SuperCharger at Lowell AR about 50-70 miles from Tulsa OK or Joplin MO. It is a stretch between Lowell and Little Rock but a Super 8 Motel has both a free J1772 and Tesla destination charger . . . and breakfast. They are also pet friendly.

Bob Wilson
 
So what I'm hearing so far is that there is no real range anxiety, even for a ~ 200 mile non Tesla. That's good to hear. After talking it over with my wife, the bedroom remodel comes first :rolleyes: so I'll probably put the EV off for a year or two. By that time I'm guessing that ranges will improve anyway.

I'll probably go with the long range Tesla Y and that car may likely be pushing 400 mi by then; we'll see, but even if it stays at 316, your responses indicate that it should be more then enough with a bit of planning.

I would like to test drive a Kona but apparently they won't stock them in the SE, at least that's what I was told. For my trip to Atlanta to drive the Y a couple days ago I was sure that the Hyundai dealership would have one, but no. Aside from the 2019 E-Tron (I learned there is no 2020 model as they had to do some redesign work), the only other car available in my area (Augusta) is the Bolt. I drove it yesterday and it was OK but not for me. The dealership only sold one this year and want to get rid of this one. It's the loaded model for $44K and they offered it to me for $32!
 
bwilson4web said:
We also use PlugShare to map L2 and NEMA 14-50 chargers. So if traffic forces a change of plans, we can use them for an hour or so to add 30 miles range each hour.
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So from this I assume that a Tesla can use any public charger, even though the opposite is not true? That's another reason to consider the Tesla for sure.
 
linux said:
So from this I assume that a Tesla can use any public charger, even though the opposite is not true? That's another reason to consider the Tesla for sure.
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That's true if you buy an additional adapter (not cheap) to be able to use CCS chargers. Where I live, BC, other chargers (and many free ones) are more available than Tesla's which are mostly just on the main routes. My son who has an M3 had to buy the adapter ($600 CAD) to take advantage of them.
 
ericy said:
ETron in particular has pretty low efficiency. So while it might charge faster, in the end the lower efficiency means that a given charge won't take you as far. If you look at it in terms of minutes of charging per mile of travel, then the ETron doesn't look so hot.
Click to expand...

Yeah, when I looked up the specs, the e-tron was about 1000 pounds heavier than the Tesla model Y.
 
The funny thing about electric vehicles being unpopular in Augusta is that we're the home to the Augusta National golf club, IE home of the masters tournament and golf is wildly popular as are electric golf carts. Most every development has many homes that have them for the kids to cruise around in. Additionally, we the home of Club Car. Go figure...
 
linux said:
So from this I assume that a Tesla can use any public charger, even though the opposite is not true? That's another reason to consider the Tesla for sure.
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Everyone can use the J1772 L2 chargers and there is a 50 kW Tesla-to-CHAdeMO adapter. But many North American Tesla owners want a Tesla-to-CCS 1 adapter.

Bob Wilson
 
The Tesla-to-CCS 1 requires a working data link. For a couple hundred dollars, the CCS 1 specs are available but I don’t know about the Tesla specs. The plug-and-pay might be a problem.

Bob Wilson
 
R P said:
That's true if you buy an additional adapter (not cheap) to be able to use CCS chargers. Where I live, BC, other chargers (and many free ones) are more available than Tesla's which are mostly just on the main routes. My son who has an M3 had to buy the adapter ($600 CAD) to take advantage of them.
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Correction: I meant to say chademo adapter, not CCS. I don't think there is a Tesla/CCS adapter, which is what you really want. But a lot of fast charging stations do have both chademo and CCS. However the chademo are limited to only 50 kW.
 
R P said:
That's true if you buy an additional adapter (not cheap) to be able to use CCS chargers. Where I live, BC, other chargers (and many free ones) are more available than Tesla's which are mostly just on the main routes. My son who has an M3 had to buy the adapter ($600 CAD) to take advantage of them.
Click to expand...

EVgo is in the process of adding a Tesla plug to their DC chargers, starting in California.

https://www.evgo.com/tesla-charging/
 
Right now, i think ev’s should be tauted as a family’s SECOND (‘more-local’) car, not the primary that required very long trips.
I have a 2019 Kona SEL. It has an epa rating of 258 miles. But i drive it in ‘eco mode’, not normal or sport. Has plenty of punch when needed but mostly driven normally(and that’s not pokey like some early hybrids either).
My 100% charge miles is about 300. If i use heater or a/c that max drops to about 240. I feel no anxiety if taking a 200 mi trip for sure.
I recommend that you test drive the kona, specifically in eco mode. And don’t baby it. Bet you’ll like it.

And when you’re mapping out your trip, dont use only the listed epa rating. Consider how that could be less.

Good luck with your choices.


Sent from my iPad using Inside EVs
 
HudsonKona said:
Right now, i think ev’s should be tauted as a family’s SECOND (‘more-local’) car, not the primary that required very long trips.
Click to expand...

If I only wanted a second car for around the city, I would have gotten a used eGolf or some such.

In the end, it depends on where you need to go, and how often you go there. I just don't make thousand mile trips that often any more, and in the current environment, I can't see any in the near future. For the most part, the trips are still doable with what exists today. You just need to get used to doing things a little differently.
 
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