Of Course Cybertruck will outsell F150!

[101101]

If Tesla could clear through its reservations in a single year CT would outsell F150 in CT's launch year. F150 sales have to be starting to drop already (beyond covid) because the ICE F150 is simply obsolete and a radically better replacement (CT) is about 1 year away. Of course Ford will be doing every bit of the shilling marketing bs it knows how to keep this from becoming public, but it won't work. Farley said no u-turn on tech but he thinks that means no u-turn on over the air updates.

The 2.5 pick ups only sell in the US and fossil fuel oligarchy Australia because they aren't actually that good to begin with and hide behind a 25% tarif on imports (in the US) as part of a scam to defeat the impact of CAFE by forcing buyers into heavier vehicles and also because the fossil fuel complicit 2.5 cannibalize the value out of their cars into their trucks to support the scam. But Ford did this so hard it has no more cars left to support its truck- classic fossil fuel ponzi style- Ford has been hollowed out.

Model 3 as a car outsold F150 in CA, where CA is the US's largest and most competitive market in the US and said to be most competitive in the world. In the heart of the US auto market the F150 was outsold by an electric vehicle that was a car no less!

I saw this article yesterday that said Ford share holders had to be rewarded for Ford continuing to pursue technology. What a joke. Like there is an option to following tech where Ford could remain solvent. Ford is facing being zeroed out and it share holders are being rewarded accordingly for resisting green.

Sullins supposedly cancelled his CT reservation and is getting a Rivian. Right.... Same price for half the performance and half the capacity. Very likely this is Rivian giving him a copy of their electric Ford Ranger clone to make the swap.

Of course Cybertruck will outsell F150. At this point that is like asking if iPhone outsold Blackberry.

 

[DaleL]

3.1 million pickup trucks were sold in the USA in 2019. Tesla sold 367,500 vehicles worldwide in 2019. Tesla sold ZERO pickup trucks in 2019. Tesla is expected to sell ZERO pickup trucks in 2020 and 2021. Tesla cannot sell what they do not make. The Model 3 is not a pickup truck and does not compete with a Ford F150. Ford had $6.379 billion in earnings before interest and taxes in 2019. Tesla's high stock value is because of potential future growth. Particularly because Wall Street is expecting a Biden victory in November.

 

[cmwade77]

3.1 million pickup trucks were sold in the USA in 2019. Tesla sold 367,500 vehicles worldwide in 2019. Tesla sold ZERO pickup trucks in 2019. Tesla is expected to sell ZERO pickup trucks in 2020 and 2021. Tesla cannot sell what they do not make. The Model 3 is not a pickup truck and does not compete with a Ford F150. Ford had $6.379 billion in earnings before interest and taxes in 2019. Tesla's high stock value is because of potential future growth. Particularly because Wall Street is expecting a Biden victory in November.

The OP is saying the cybertruck will outsell the all electric F150, of course that is only true if the cybertruck comes out around the same time or first. The smart move for ford is to introduce the F150 ASAP and in all states in the US, have it mass produced on a scale like they were Tesla Model3s and they will far out sell the cybertruck.

 

[Bruce M.]

The OP is saying the cybertruck will outsell the all electric F150, of course that is only true if the cybertruck comes out around the same time or first. The smart move for ford is to introduce the F150 ASAP and in all states in the US, have it mass produced on a scale like they were Tesla Model3s and they will far out sell the cybertruck.

It doesn't sound like he's saying that at all, though perhaps he'd like to clarify. In fact, he declares the ICE F150 "obsolete" -- a notion that several milliion owners of F150 owners would no doubt vehemently argue with, much as we may all consider EVs superior. Full size pickups are a huge U.S. market, totally dominated by just 3 companies: Ford, GM and Ram. It's a very, very traditional market, very much wrapped up in macho imagery. Can Tesla break through and become a major player where Toyota and Nissan have failed? Maybe. But the idea that F150 owners will abandon their rides in droves for Teslas seems unlikely.

 

[101101]

It doesn't matter if Biden wins fossil fuels are dead and cannot be rescued. A lot of dumb fossil fuel investors will be zeroed out. Going to be tons of videos of CTs dragging F150s up hills backwards.

3.1 million pickup trucks were sold in the USA in 2019. Tesla sold 367,500 vehicles worldwide in 2019. Tesla sold ZERO pickup trucks in 2019. Tesla is expected to sell ZERO pickup trucks in 2020 and 2021. Tesla cannot sell what they do not make. The Model 3 is not a pickup truck and does not compete with a Ford F150. Ford had $6.379 billion in earnings before interest and taxes in 2019. Tesla's high stock value is because of potential future growth. Particularly because Wall Street is expecting a Biden victory in November.

 

[cmwade77]

It doesn't matter if Biden wins fossil fuels are dead and cannot be rescued. A lot of dumb fossil fuel investors will be zeroed out. Going to be tons of videos of CTs dragging F150s up hills backwards.

You do know that Ford is going to start selling an all electric F150 soon right? The range will be similar to cybertruck with better touring capacity and the ability to power your house built in.

 

[Bruce M.]

Yes, in the long term fossil fuels are going away. In the short term, the market for big pickups is very traditional and conservative -- not just politically (though plenty of big truckers snort derisively when you talk about climate change) but in terms of buying habits. Electric trucks will eventually take over, but they're not going to storm the market right away. And truck buyers have a LOT of brand loyalty to their Fords, Chevys and Rams.

 

[101101]

Ah no! Ford doesn't know what its doing and it would be totally lost without Tesla helping it behind the scenes. It rebranded a cut rate Model Y as its Mustang and had to go down to Tesla Hawthorn studio to pick it up for display in their unveil. There was a picture of that F150 they used to pull the train (on steel wheels took like 15hp or something) coming out of a Tesla factory with a bunch of Teslas on a car hauler because Tesla earlier put it together for them. Like Hacket said Tesla is the company to emmulate. Its true Ford has been getting some stuff from VW and Rivian but they are ameteur hour in comparison. But in the mean time the fools at Ford replaced Hacket with a family guy who thinks no U turn on tech means over the air updates. Ford was on the right side of CARB but Ford has more debt than GM did when it went under 100B plus and no ability to access capital markets. I guess part of the reason Hacket was pushed out is Ford may have to beg the Trump admin to save it from bankruptcy after it defied Trump. That 100B is all money wasted on ads and useless dividends. And no it seems incredibly clear the electric F150 won't have more towing capacity than the CT. The limit on that is for things like the weight of the pulling vehicle for traction for stopping and stability of a solid back axel- pulling power is not the limiting factor.

Finally bubbas will abandon the obsolete small 2.5 stuff because they don't want to look like light weights which ICE 2.5 surely will at the same time 2.5 won't commit to expanding EV marketshare because of ICE sunk costs- Ford won't do a battery factory and GM is trying to use Honda as a life raft. Alternatively in holding off Bubbas will buy older tougher looking used trucks to save money and bide time while not looking like weenies. Either way small 2.5 gets Blackberried- they also get de-capitalized, both their market share and their market value will be transferred to Tesla.
Their share holders and their managements richly deserve this. Their workers don't this is why we need high indexed GAIs a super strong safety net and really when Ford and GM and FCA go bankrupt full ownership should be permanently transferred to the workers (pmanently excluding the board, execs, managers and supervisors) and companies taken off the exchanges or at most only non voting shares issued to the public. Their owner haven't been any more useful than PG&E's useless theiving scam of an ownership where people pay 4x as much per kwh than they do in Kentucky coop for the same dirty unreliable natural gas bs. PG&E needs to nationalized and turned into coops their 'investors' are useless thieving parasites.

 

[DaleL]

Ah no! Ford doesn't know what its doing and it would be totally lost without Tesla helping it behind the scenes. It rebranded a cut rate Model Y as its Mustang and had to go down to Tesla Hawthorn studio to pick it up for display in their unveil.

If the Mustang E is somehow "a cut rate Model Y" then why does it have a different power train? All vehicle manufacturers buy samples of their competitors vehicles for comparison. There is no evidence that Ford has an alliance with Tesla. Quite to the contrary. Ford has invested in Rivian and has an alliance with VW.

 

[101101]

@ Dalel

There is a ton of evidence for anyone paying attention.

You know how you reconized a self referential incompetent narccisitic MD? They say "there is evidence for....x"
The statement illogical. Could say I am not aware of any evidence for...x
But to say it the other way only shows one is a big believer in one's own god like omnicience. Some how the sponsored medical profession in this country figured it out and stopped saying it. Propagandists in public health still use it because its authoritarian.

 

[DaleL]

There is a ton of evidence for anyone paying attention.

Really? Then please list some of that "ton" of evidence. If there is so much evidence of Tesla helping Ford behind the scenes, then why does a simple search "tesla helping ford" turn up empty except for making COVID-19 masks? It is normally easy to prove a positive. So prove it. In the absence of evidence, for which you claim there is a "ton" of, the logical conclusion must be that there is none. It then follows that Tesla is NOT helping Ford. Finally, if Tesla were helping Ford, Tesla would not be doing it for free. That would show up on each company's financial reports.

 

[101101]

@ Dalel Maybe you should search the thread before replying. As for it showing up in the financial reports there was something I read about a while back that made me wonder but wasn't that big of an amount. It was a future disclosure type thing.

But I think Musk would have done it for free because it is pure come to poppa validation. Musk didn't even have to fight the comparatively pathetic ICE F150 in the market. Ford because it was run by the wise Hacket surrendered and defeated F150 ICE for him. Ford paid proper tribute "Tesla is the one to emmulate" out of its CEO mouth. Fine if Tesla was the real daddy of Ford's electric future (if it still has a future of any kind) by authoring the core of its to most valueable remaining vehicles F150 and Mustang. Borging Ford the Tesla crew must have been laughing their arses off but it was the right call for a checkmated Ford. Ford started making the right noises like on CARB. Priceless!

But now we have a family guy in who says Tesla has no advantage and no U turn on tech means not backing down on over the air updates because that is the only reason Tesla beat Ford so he's a damn fool ICE back slider... superb, now a buch of idiot oligarch money will be burned as Ford goes up in flames. Only greater service to democracy than burning oligarch's ill gotten gain is forcing them to disgorge that property to the people from whom it was stolen. When Ford goes under have to make sure its 100+ billion in debt comes out of oligarch hide!

 

[SouthernDude]

It doesn't sound like he's saying that at all, though perhaps he'd like to clarify. In fact, he declares the ICE F150 "obsolete" -- a notion that several milliion owners of F150 owners would no doubt vehemently argue with, much as we may all consider EVs superior. Full size pickups are a huge U.S. market, totally dominated by just 3 companies: Ford, GM and Ram. It's a very, very traditional market, very much wrapped up in macho imagery. Can Tesla break through and become a major player where Toyota and Nissan have failed? Maybe. But the idea that F150 owners will abandon their rides in droves for Teslas seems unlikely.

It's not really the 'macho' imagery. The issue is that the cybertruck design is very polarizing. I highly doubt that many Ford F-series customers would switch to a design that is so radical. To me, all the trucks sold now sort of have the same form factor. The cybertruck is way different. I personally wouldn't buy the cybertruck because I wouldn't want the attention from the car. Secondly, the cybertruck hasn't been produced yet, so we don't actually know what its real world specs are. I think the cybertruck will sell fine, but there's no way that the cybertruck will outsell the Ford F-150. In 2019, Ford sold about 896,526 F-150 trucks. Yeah, no way tesla will outsell that on the first year the cybertruck is out.

 

[101101]

But we can already the F150 isn't going to be good enough. Just look at the front end reveal- which isn't what Tesla did. What Ford and GM are doing is trying to focus group the design because they are afraid by releasing little bits at a time.

But come on, a Rivian solid light bar and leave the friction lined mirrors and flat sell more gas front end? They apparently aren't even doing a ground up design this looks like a BMW compromised kicking and screaming electric retro fit. They are half arsing it even if they try to shoe horn in Tesla tech. The results they will get won't be enough to keep them from losing eniugh sales that they go bankrupt.

I thought Tesla might license to these laggards but something Jordan of Limiting factor said made me think otherwise- they are more likely to source parts to these repackagers kind of like AMD does for pc and console makers. These outsourcer companies really only know how to do that. Anymore they are just label makers or formularies. An example is Sony and Microsoft in their console vs pc wars. Early on court decisions favorable to Intel kept NEC and Hitachi from producing x86 processor chips. That kept Japan out of the full PC vertical integration space for the 80s and much of the 90s. Sony along with Hitachi came with their console and started making claims threatening the Wintel PC Duopoly. So Microsoft put a pc in the livinging room based on Intel and Nvidia chips. Nindendo had a console at the time based on PowerPC (IBM-Motorola-Apple) and ATI chips. In the next round 3 of the 3 console makers used PowerPC chips and 2 of 3 also used ATI chips. In 2006 AMD acquired ATI and in the following round all 3 used AMD chips exclusively- with Nintendo transitioning to Nvidia. In the round just coming out Microsoft and Sony are still repackaging AMD hardware
but out of fear of Google and Amazon Sony started using Microsoft Azure for cloud services. Sony is now running pure PC hardware and software (well except for Linux on its client consoles- flavor of Unix where Unix predated PC)
In the mean time Intel is going under leaving AMD dominant in consoles and PCs. Tesla will source parts for theses advertisers in advertiser's clothing- if they remain viable at all.