Kona vs Tesla

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Carlo

Carlo

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We acquired our 2021 Kona Electric Ultimate in June, 2021 and we love it!
We got $17k off the sticker price at NY State's largest Hyundai dealer in Buffalo. After 20 months, we drove it from NY to Florida for the winter, and we found a lot of Tesla owners here in Tallahassee. I'm learning so much about them, just by reading their posts. I see things like:
  • They get squeaks and rattles, even though

  • They have no buttons on the dash.

  • They don't even have a button on the doors to roll the windows up or down.

  • The instrument panel is in the center of the dash, and that's essentially a big i-Pad, from a different manufacturer.

  • It offers absolutely no tactile feel whatsoever, so they're forced to take their eyes off the road to do simple things like: roll the window down.
    • I have a heads-up display directly over the steering wheel.
    • Tesla doesn’t offer or recommend one.
  • They complain of wipers that wear out quickly,

  • Their owner's manual instructs them not to charge the Tesla beyond 80% most of the time.
    • I'm surprised because we've charged our Kona to 100% almost every time for 20 months now, with no degradation or any other issue.
  • As a result, most Tesla owners don't understand how I get about 300 miles of range on our Kona.

  • They don't have the ability to adjust or turn off their regen; they have no paddle shifters.

  • They must travel over 2 hours to buy the Tesla, as there's no dealer nearby.

  • They have no service facility nearby. If they need body work, they must drop off the Tesla and get a rental car to get back home.

  • Tesla doesn't provide most of them with a full charge when they buy the new car, as Tesla wants them to learn how to use the super chargers, which are no longer free.
    • Hyundai gave us a free full charge at the dealer, with lots more afterwards, plus 3 years of free charges elsewhere.
  • Their battery and motor warranty is only 8 years/100k miles.
    • Ours is 10 years/100k miles.
  • Their bumper to bumper warranty is 4 years/50k miles.
    • We get 5 years/60k miles.
  • They don't even provide a home charging cable! They provide none whatsoever. If you want a basic house outlet charger, that's now a $200 Tesla option.
    https://evsguy.com/tesla-wall-connector-vs-mobile-connector/
And for all of this, they pay about $20k more than I did for a base Tesla, that doesn't even have a garage door opener. None of them ever get $17k off the sticker.
 
When you can't find an available working fast charger, you will know why folks buy a Tesla.

I've never seen a Kona EV selling for 17K under MSRP. Care to show us the sales contract?
 
How can every Tesla dealer be 2 hours away from every Tesla customer?

Many of your criticisms are valid, but after reading the Repair issues and fixes thread in this forum, I'm sure Tesla owners are glad they don't have to worry about replacing the Kona's motor and drive gears.
 
Carlo said:
We acquired our 2021 Kona Electric Ultimate in June, 2021 and we love it!
We got $17k off the sticker price at NY State's largest Hyundai dealer in Buffalo. After 20 months, we drove it from NY to Florida for the winter, and we found a lot of Tesla owners here in Tallahassee. I'm learning so much about them, just by reading their posts. I see things like:
  • They get squeaks and rattles, even though

  • They have no buttons on the dash.

  • They don't even have a button on the doors to roll the windows up or down.

  • The instrument panel is in the center of the dash, and that's essentially a big i-Pad, from a different manufacturer.

  • It offers absolutely no tactile feel whatsoever, so they're forced to take their eyes off the road to do simple things like: roll the window down.
    • I have a heads-up display directly over the steering wheel.
    • Tesla doesn’t offer or recommend one.
  • They complain of wipers that wear out quickly,

  • Their owner's manual instructs them not to charge the Tesla beyond 80% most of the time.
    • I'm surprised because we've charged our Kona to 100% almost every time for 20 months now, with no degradation or any other issue.
  • As a result, most Tesla owners don't understand how I get about 300 miles of range on our Kona.

  • They don't have the ability to adjust or turn off their regen; they have no paddle shifters.

  • They must travel over 2 hours to buy the Tesla, as there's no dealer nearby.

  • They have no service facility nearby. If they need body work, they must drop off the Tesla and get a rental car to get back home.

  • Tesla doesn't provide most of them with a full charge when they buy the new car, as Tesla wants them to learn how to use the super chargers, which are no longer free.
    • Hyundai gave us a free full charge at the dealer, with lots more afterwards, plus 3 years of free charges elsewhere.
  • Their battery and motor warranty is only 8 years/100k miles.
    • Ours is 10 years/100k miles.
  • Their bumper to bumper warranty is 4 years/50k miles.
    • We get 5 years/60k miles.
  • They don't even provide a home charging cable! They provide none whatsoever. If you want a basic house outlet charger, that's now a $200 Tesla option.
    https://evsguy.com/tesla-wall-connector-vs-mobile-connector/
And for all of this, they pay about $20k more than I did for a base Tesla, that doesn't even have a garage door opener. None of them ever get $17k off the sticker.
Click to expand...


Hi Carlo
Your points are pretty good, I presume with some humour intended, however I know several Tesla owners who are pretty happy with their cars! That being said, I have a 23 Kona Ultimate which we have had now for just shy of 6 months and we put on 5000km per month (about 3200 miles) and have done a lot of road trips. We love the car, other than the slower charging speed it is great but w/o question Tesla's have some pretty big advantages over our Kona's....road tripping charger availability, charge speed, better nav software, etc. That being said they are not my cup of tea as I share your feelings about the buttons, price, etc. I have driven the Model 3 and a Model S, very nice cars but not for me.
Now, we are expecting delivery of a Kia EV6 some time this summer which will replace our beloved Kona...the only reasons are charging speed and room for our grandkids in the back seat, 2 at present and a 3rd on the way!
In any case glad you are enjoying the Kona and I wish we would have gotten a better price on ours - we paid full list.
Have a great day!
Mike
 
insightman said:
How can every Tesla dealer be 2 hours away from every Tesla customer?

Many of your criticisms are valid, but after reading the Repair issues and fixes thread in this forum, I'm sure Tesla owners are glad they don't have to worry about replacing the Kona's motor and drive gears.
Click to expand...

  • Our Hyundai has no issue with our motor or drive gears,
  • We have a better, longer warranty, and
  • We paid over $20k less than a Tesla.
 
insightman said:
How can every Tesla dealer be 2 hours away from every Tesla customer?
Click to expand...

As stated in my original post, Tallahassee's closest Tesla dealer is over 2 hours away.
That's in Jacksonville. The next Tesla dealer is 4 hours away, in Orlando, or Atlanta.

Tesla owners in Tallahassee face that challenge.
 
Last edited:
As stated, we just drove the car from NY to Florida. I had no issues with the chargers, but then, I don't do anything without a plan.
To that end, this is how I planned out the purchase of the car. We got about $17k off, with no trade. I did the negotiations via e-mail:

The sticker is attached, with a price of $47,520.
The lease document is also attached, which shows the following discounts:
$2,584 Dealer Discount, +
$1,500 Hyundai rebate +
$2,000 Hyundai rebate +
$10,750 immediate credit from the federal and NY State tax credits, for a total discount of:
$16,834.

I never pay full price.
I also don't purchase electric cars. I lease them. Why?
Because in a few years, newer ones will get far better range, and the sticker prices will continue to decrease, AND
-If you lease the car, you're guaranteed to receive the full federal tax credit, immediately. If you buy it, you'll need to owe the IRS $7,500 in order to get the full credit, when you do your taxes, which may be several months later.
 

Attachments

insightman said:
How can every Tesla dealer be 2 hours away from every Tesla customer?
Click to expand...

He's over selling that point. The closest Tesla service center to me is just 8.2 miles away.

I would be interested to know what exactly these rebates are besides the $7,500 tax credit and the $2,000 New York rebate.
 
marshall said:
He's over selling that point. The closest Tesla service center to me is just 8.2 miles away.

I would be interested to know what exactly these rebates are besides the $7,500 tax credit and the $2,000 New York rebate.
Click to expand...

Every Tesla dealer is not 2 hours away.
HOWEVER, the closest Tesla dealer to the City of Tallahassee is is the City of Jacksonville, 2.5 hours away.

In reference to the rebates:
One Hyundai rebate was for having a current lease on a competing vehicle. In our case, that was a Subaru.
The other was a Hyundai rebate on any Kona Electric.
In 2021 the total tax credits for a fully electric vehicle in NY State totaled: $10,750, all as detailed in the closing document attached in the message posted above.
 
Carlo said:
Every Tesla dealer is not 2 hours away.
HOWEVER, the closest Tesla dealer to the City of Tallahassee is is the City of Jacksonville, 2.5 hours away.

In reference to the rebates:
One Hyundai rebate was for having a current lease on a competing vehicle. In our case, that was a Subaru.
The other was a Hyundai rebate on any Kona Electric.
In 2021 the total tax credits for a fully electric vehicle in NY State totaled: $10,750, all as detailed in the closing document attached in the message posted above.
Click to expand...
You did well. I don't see any of those rebates outside the 2,000 dollars NY kicks in listed and perhaps getting $7,500 off a current lease. It's only been recently, were a couple of local dealers have discounted Hyundai EVs a couple of thousand dollars. I did find it interesting to see that you received the $2,000 NY rebate since you car's MSRP is over $42,000.

Tesla is adding new service centers. The one near me opened about a year ago. Before, one had to drive 35 miles to get to one. However, they have always offered home service in my area for minor issues. My guess is 2.5 hours is too far for home service.
 
I totally agree.

It's not mentioned on the sales document, but we also saved $1,100 by doing a one-pay-lease. That's because that document was specifically written for that lease. Most salesman try to sway buyers from a one-pay because their Sales Managers find them to be complicated to figure. They can make mistakes, and sometimes those mistakes are in my favor. That's when I jump on the deal.

The federal rebates changed for 2023, and the State rebates changed shortly after we got ours.
In 2021 the NY State EV rebate was higher. Since my total rebate was $10,750, I think it was $3,250.
Prior to 2023, the federal tax credit on a Hyundai was $7,500, and that could be applied immediately, if you leased the car. -Not so right now. However...

That's expected to occur again, as the Commercial Tax Credit portion of the new law kicks in:
https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/commercial-clean-vehicle-credit

In my opinion, that's the best way to get any EV, as you're guaranteed to get the full credit up front, before you pick up the car. You save $7500 immediately, which is far less risky than hoping you'll owe the Feds $7500 when you do your taxes.
If you want to keep the car, just pay the Residual at lease end. In our case, that's the $23,760 on the sales sheet.

However, if you find that the newer EV's are better and less expensive, which is likely, go for the better car and the cheaper lease when your old lease is up.
A 3 year lease will also provide a good indication of any battery degradation.
I forgot all the reasons to lease, but I researched the heck out of it 2 years ago.

One thing:
Get deals from the local dealers. If you can't get copies, just take a photo of the deal. Save the best deal and take it to the biggest dealer for that make of vehicle. In our case, we got ours from the largest Hyundai dealer in NY State. It was 150 miles away, but saved us about $3k.
I learned this while buying Chevy's. NY also has one of the largest Chevy dealers in the nation. At Bob Johnson Chevy, and we typically get new Chevy's way cheaper than the Hyundai. Bob Johnson's insignia on the back of his cars reads: "#1 In the Nation" because he sometimes sells more Chevy's than anyone in the country. As such, he'll sell cars for less than he pays for them, due to the significant monthly and quarterly kick-backs from GM. It took me a while to figure that out, as it sounds unbelievable, so I took his deals to several other dealers and learned that Bob Johnson really did sell them for less than he paid for them. They finally acknowledged that when I got a brand new 2019 Silverado for $20k under sticker in February 2020. The sticker was $47,325.
 
I leased my Kona precisely to get the $7,500 off the top rather than wait for my next year's tax filing. My lease is up March 1 and I'm going to buy the car at lease end as I totally love it and don't put a lot of miles on it. I'll have it for years barring something unfortunate like a tree falling on it (not impossible in rural Hawaii where I live). Speaking of Hawaii, the Kona Electric wasn't originally sold here, but the local dealer is now advertising them

As for Tesla, I am never, ever giving a dime to Elon Musk, but one does see quite a few of them here.
 
Carlo said:
We acquired our 2021 Kona Electric Ultimate in June, 2021 and we love it!
We got $17k off the sticker price at NY State's largest Hyundai dealer in Buffalo. After 20 months, we drove it from NY to Florida for the winter, and we found a lot of Tesla owners here in Tallahassee. I'm learning so much about them, just by reading their posts. I see things like:
  • They have no buttons on the dash.
  • They don't even have a button on the doors to roll the windows up or down.
  • The instrument panel is in the center of the dash, and that's essentially a big i-Pad, from a different manufacturer.
  • It offers absolutely no tactile feel whatsoever, so they're forced to take their eyes off the road to do simple things like: roll the window down.
    • I have a heads-up display directly over the steering wheel.
    • Tesla doesn’t offer or recommend one.
  • They don't have the ability to adjust or turn off their regen; they have no paddle shifters.
  • They must travel over 2 hours to buy the Tesla, as there's no dealer nearby.
  • They have no service facility nearby. If they need body work, they must drop off the Tesla and get a rental car to get back home.
And for all of this, they pay about $20k more than I did for a base Tesla, that doesn't even have a garage door opener. None of them ever get $17k off the sticker.
Click to expand...

Teslas do have physical window switches, and they do allow you to adjust the regen (via a toggle on the infotainment screen).

Tesla sells direct to consumer; they do not have an independent dealer network. This is illegal in many states. In those states, they have showrooms where you can look at the car, but you can't ask about pricing or buy the car. If you want to buy the car, you have to order it online via the Tesla website and either have it shipped to you or go to a state where it's legal for them to sell cars and pick it up from there.

For service, Tesla will often send someone to you to perform the service at your home. They can service a lot of things this way. It's only really for major bodywork that they will make you bring the car to them.

Here's why people buy (and often love) Teslas though: 1) their charging network and 2) their software and integration.

Tesla's software is quite frankly in another league to everyone else. It's difficult to convey in words just how well their systems work compared to almost any other auto manufacturer. Owning and driving a Tesla is unlike any other vehicle, because they use software to solve just about every problem you can think of, and tons of problems you didn't think of. It's really the sort of thing that, once you experience it, you understand.

Does that mean I think you should go out and buy a Tesla? Heck no. I can easily afford a Tesla, but I went with a Kona Electric instead, for a number of reasons. But I rented a Tesla for a week, and the experience was so much better than any other car I have ever driven. including my Kona.
 
You're correct about the window switches. However, they still have strange issues that are problematic on very cold days that you may not see in NYC. We don't want frozen windows to open in upstate NY. This is an excerpt from their owners manual:
upload_2023-2-17_17-53-46.webp

In reference to Tesla's software, it has to be good. Since they don't provide an instrument panel in front of the driver, nearly everything is done on the screen in the center of the dash. There's nothing in front of the driver. There's no tactile feel.

In addition, their regen is not as good as the less expensive car.
The excerpt provided below, from the Tesla Owners Manual instructs drivers to park the car, then flip through menus on the screen in the center of the dashboard just to adjust the regen. In a Kona, you just use the paddle shifters while you're driving. In addition, Tesla's regen doesn't allow you to stop the car or completely release the regen. Lack of that functionality reduces range.
Plus, it costs $20k more.

upload_2023-2-17_17-30-26.webp
 
Carlo said:
I've noticed that Hyundai just began selling them in more States
Click to expand...
I would have been so upset if my MINI BEV and Honda PHEV hadn't been sold in Michigan. Fortunately for me, those companies chose to sell in all 50 states--even Michigan.
 
Cold weather range is another interesting comparison. The Kona has very good wintertime range, comparable to the Tesla but for less money. That was a major factor in my decision to buy a Kona.

Discussions about road tripping and charging networks are (for most people) a red herring since most charges happen at home. We have completed quite a few multi-day road trips in our Kona and the rhythm of a charging at night, and charging during stops for lunch, morning and afternoon coffee stops works well enough for us. Not too much different than the amount of stopping we did in our gas powered honda civic on road trips. I don't see access to the Tesla's SC network making a very meaningful difference.

When I was shopping I heard stories about how difficult it was to service a Tesla at home or at an independent garage. Tesla was said to make it difficult to buy parts. I have no experience to back that up but I wouldn't want to be beholden to a dealership a 7 hour round trip drive away from me for repairs that could be accomplished locally. May or may not be a misconception.

Finally, I wanted a car that blends in. The Tesla is kind of in your face as "status car" or "electric car" or "Elon fan-boy". Some folks want that, but I didn't.
 
Carlo said:
You're correct about the window switches. However, they still have strange issues that are problematic on very cold days that you may not see in NYC. We don't want frozen windows to open in upstate NY. This is an excerpt from their owners manual:
View attachment 19800

In reference to Tesla's software, it has to be good. Since they don't provide an instrument panel in front of the driver, nearly everything is done on the screen in the center of the dash. There's nothing in front of the driver. There's no tactile feel.

In addition, their regen is not as good as the less expensive car.
The excerpt provided below, from the Tesla Owners Manual instructs drivers to park the car, then flip through menus on the screen in the center of the dashboard just to adjust the regen. In a Kona, you just use the paddle shifters while you're driving. In addition, Tesla's regen doesn't allow you to stop the car or completely release the regen. Lack of that functionality reduces range.
Plus, it costs $20k more.

View attachment 19798
Click to expand...
Honestly, it sounds like you've never driven, or even sat in the driver's seat of a Tesla, and you're complaining based on stuff you've read online.

I drove a Tesla Model 3 for a week. The infotainment screen is fine. The regen is fine. The windows are frameless. You open the door, the window drops slightly so as not to catch on the weather-stripping. You close the door, the window goes back up. This is typical behavior on cars with frameless windows.
 
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