Interesting comparison between SE and Tesla Model 3 Performance

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That poor Southern California programmer chap suffers from ADHD. He is mostly disappointed with the lethargic performance of the MINI during autocross with the dealer tags still on (OEM tires). The MINI was sold a few months later.

I think the should go get that M3P track beast!
 
To be fair to the reddit poster, the Tesla wasn't rated much better in most things. I think the low points for charging is clearly skewed by the Tesla supercharging experience, where it's automagic billing. Very nice indeed, but aside from Tesla most BEVs don't offer that. And the SE's charging is simple compared to many others, it's just plug and charge, with the ability to remove the plug at any time. No messing with 80% battery or anything.

No complaints about range on the SE, which is refreshing in a review. As for handling, the SE is "a lot of fun for driving" versus The M3P "accelerates ridiculously fast but is lethargic in handling". Um.

The poster said the Tesla M3P is too expensive, but it's the purchase choice anyway? It doesn't rate significantly better, so I guess paying more for the Tesla brand is worth something?
 
The poster didn't seem to like either vehicle, certain aspects of each sure, but overall not enough to be happy with a purchase of either. They also stated the M3P was outside the comfort range of their budget. Plenty more fish in the sea, perhaps the poster should widen their choices - I mean, major manufacturers don't make what seems to be 10 different crossovers each for nothing, there's usually a vehicle to fit everyone's niche...
 
insightman said:
We're so lucky our niche is large enough that MINI keeps making the SE! As far as niches go, the SE's niche is so small that no other manufacturer appears to recognize its existance.
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Right. I am so happy that the SE exists and was brought to the states! It is literally the only option in what would consider my own “niche”


Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
 
insightman said:
We're so lucky our niche is large enough that MINI keeps making the SE! As far as niches go, the SE's niche is so small that no other manufacturer appears to recognize its existance.
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Fiat was in the same niche, but I don't know what kind of handling Fiat has (I briefly owned a Fiat Spider way back when). My friend has a Fiat 500e and it's cute, although it's definitely a 1st-gen BEV (unlike the SE which learned a lot from the i3). But I just saw a later model Fiat and it's HUGE, seems even bigger than a Countryman. So Fiat has apparently decided to move out of the small hatch niche, at least in North America.

Here's my SE next to my friend's Fiat 500e.

SE+500e.webp
 
Location: Southern California
Price range: $50k
Lease or Buy: Buy
New or used: New
Type of vehicle: Fun to drive car
Must haves: Fun to drive
Desired transmission (auto/manual, etc): Any
Intended use: Daily and 10 track days per year

Vehicles you've already considered:
Mazda ND1 Miata RF Auto - Uninspiring exhaust note and not that fun to drive on my daily commute. I would need to spend a lot of money on mods to make it track worthy.
Ford Mustang GT Premium PP1 Auto - Intoxicating exhaust, but I’ve heard that the manual isn’t great and I doubt it’ll hold up well on the track.
Tesla Model 3 Performance - I was bored driving it. Got used to the acceleration after a few pulls. AWD system feels too safe. Feels overpriced for what you get.
Volkswagen MK8 GTI Autobahn Auto - Will rent this weekend.
Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE Manual - There's one a couple hours away that I can rent. My wife thinks that this will be my choice.
Honda FL5 Civic Type R - There's an FK2 that I can rent to get a feel for it. But I doubt I'll be able to find an FL5 anytime soon without ridiculous markup.
Toyota GR Corolla - I have no idea how it'll drive. Like the Civic, I doubt I can find one without ridiculous markup. Also, the way that Toyota handles GR86 warranty claim makes me hesitant.

Is this your 1st vehicle: No
Do you need a Warranty: Yes
Can you do Minor work on your own vehicle: Yes
Can you do Major work on your own vehicle: No

Sounds like the Model 3 Performance is the overall winner to that Reddit user!
 
Puppethead said:
I just saw a later model Fiat and it's HUGE
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That larger Fiat wasn't a later model Fiat EV, you saw a Fiat 500X ICEV. The $32,000 California-only Fiat 500e was a millstone around Fiat's neck. CEO Sergio Marchionne complained FCA lost up to $20,000 per car. The 500e was so slow and its range so minimal that I don't believe it shares the same niche with the spectacular SE. It's closer to a Smart EV.
 
Puppethead said:
Fiat was in the same niche, but I don't know what kind of handling Fiat has (I briefly owned a Fiat Spider way back when).
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I've had both almost back to back with a short stint in a Bolt. 500e is a toy compared to the SE. Terrible build quality, weak above ~30mph, narrow track felt sketchy on the highway, traction control constantly kicked in at the wrong times. Basically it lacks confidence in most situations. Perfect for truly urban driving, short tame trips through tight streets, but only if you can get it for under $7-8k max.
 
Cheap Sunglasses said:
And what about the Bolt?
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I had a '22 2LT (top spec all options) and really loved it. One pedal was perfect with plenty of regen, stop lights that stayed on when stopped, seamless auto hold, and no "rolling in the direction of travel" funny business. Regen paddles let you add even more or act as your primary regen interface if you so choose. The updated fit, finish, and styling was nicer than prior years. Safety tech, cameras, central screen were all great. Wireless charger was in the correct spot and could handle any sized phone. Bose system hit hard and yet had good clarity. Seemingly endless cargo space, a functional back seat with a ton of legroom, and yet just 11" longer keeping it relatively compact but practical. All these things it did better than the SE in my opinion.

SE on the other hand has character, styling, a sporty drive, and quality build. My wife thought the Bolt looked stupid and in hindsight I agree. It could move, but it just wasn't as fun or engaging. Had a heavy even boaty feel at times. The SE just nips around while remaining firmly planted. Most importantly, the SE is built on a tried and true foundation when my Bolt was recalled 2 weeks after getting it home. I didn't want to deal with that and got out while I could, just about 3 months of ownership.
 
insightman said:
That larger Fiat wasn't a later model Fiat EV, you saw a Fiat 500X ICEV.
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I didn't mean to imply the bigger Fiat was an EV. I know Fiat hates the 500e, since they lost money on every one. They have a new BEV that seems fairly decent but it's not coming to North America.

I also don't think the 500e is anywhere close to the same experience as the SE, just that it could be considered in the same class—small city car. The Chevy Spark BEV would also fit that class, which is also no longer made (I have another friend who has one of those).
 
Puppethead said:
I didn't mean to imply the bigger Fiat was an EV. I know Fiat hates the 500e, since they lost money on every one. They have a new BEV that seems fairly decent but it's not coming to North America.

I also don't think the 500e is anywhere close to the same experience as the SE, just that it could be considered in the same class—small city car. The Chevy Spark BEV would also fit that class, which is also no longer made (I have another friend who has one of those).
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Well, while the SE is alone in the niche I frequently specify (small, sporty EV), it sounds like you agree the SE rules your expanded niche that appears to include any EV smaller than a Model 3. That's probably why you bought an SE.
 
insightman said:
That's probably why you bought an SE.
Click to expand...

As a long-time MINI driver I put my money down on an SE the day it was announced, before orders were even open. I never even considered a test drive, knowing it could only be better than the ICE MINI I had at the time. And I was not wrong.

As much as I've always admired small cars (my very first was a 1968 VW Beetle), I never considered a Spark EV or 500e. Those are fine little runabouts but they weren't going to work as a replacement car for me (suffering from short range, no fast charging, other reasons). But yeah, I could never drive a heavy road yacht like other EVs, or something with no spirit like a Leaf.

Now my problem is my SE is so great I don't know how I could ever part with it.
 
Puppethead said:
As a long-time MINI driver I put my money down on an SE the day it was announced, before orders were even open. I never even considered a test drive, knowing it could only be better than the ICE MINI I had at the time. And I was not wrong.

As much as I've always admired small cars (my very first was a 1968 VW Beetle), I never considered a Spark EV or 500e. Those are fine little runabouts but they weren't going to work as a replacement car for me (suffering from short range, no fast charging, other reasons). But yeah, I could never drive a heavy road yacht like other EVs, or something with no spirit like a Leaf.

Now my problem is my SE is so great I don't know how I could ever part with it.
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My dealer wouldn't take my money July 20th, 2019 (the day after the production SE was unveiled) because they didn't know anything about the SE. After many visits to educate my MA about the SE, she finally let me place my order the next month.

It is a dilemma driving the best car I've ever owned, worried that no future car can adequately take its place. I wish I could put one away to drive after this one expires. These are the good old days!
 
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