If I Could Change One Thing
- Thread starter Clamps
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R P
Well-Known Member
Really?? Not an issue with me at all. On my trips, I like to stop every 2 or 3 hours anyway, and choose somewhere where I can get a snack, coffee, lunch, etc. Most of the fast chargers I use are 50kW, so am not limited by the car anyway. After a 1/2 hour stop am on my way again. I don't feel like I wasted any time.
ericy
Well-Known Member
KiwiME
Well-Known Member
Just from the basics, the 98 series sets of three 60 Ah Li-Po cells in parallel provide 180 Ah at pack voltage. A "1C" continuous charge rate is 180 A x 98 x 4.20V = 74,088 W.
So, the highest continuous charge rate we see in practice of about 77 kW is about a "1C" rate which I think is about right for the battery life we expect.
So, the highest continuous charge rate we see in practice of about 77 kW is about a "1C" rate which I think is about right for the battery life we expect.
Clamps
Active Member
I get that. I have an EV and charge from home 99% of the time. However having a more robust EV I think about road trips and I put value on charge times.
FloridaSun
Well-Known Member
I'm even fine with the speed on 50kw chargers.. I only "need" to charge on the road about 4 - 5 times per year.. The rest of the DC Fast charges are usually convenience charges at places that I would go anyways... There is one at a playground that my kids like and they play longer than the time it takes to charge anyways. On road trips, I usually only go about 210 miles to Fort Lauderdale and when I get there, I'll have lunch or dinner, depending what time I get there. Lunch or dinner usually takes me over an hour and sometimes, I have to pick up the car before I'm done eating as I don't want to pay idle fees. However, in most cases, charging on a 50kw charger takes about the time that it take me to have lunch or dinner at a Restaurant... I usually don't go on road trips over 500 miles as I usually fly if it's that far. Flights are dirt cheap. There is no reason to waste my time driving..
ericy
Well-Known Member
Currently the cars have a nominal 400V battery pack - there is talk about manufacturers re-configuring for 800V instead, which would enable much faster charging (at least at EA that supports super-fast charging). But that could be a few years out before those cars are available for sale.
There is always some other thing that might come along. Maybe a new battery chemistry. Maybe something else. At some point you just have to go with what's available today.
Even with Tesla, they talk about 250kW charging, but the videos I have seen suggest that you only get that charging rate for a fairly small amount of time, and the rest of the charging is at a lower rate. At the end of the day, what matters is how long will it take before you are ready to unplug and go.
apu
Well-Known Member
Compared to what? If its a Tesla model 3 the difference is not as big as you imply. I recently did a DC charge from 5 to 61% SOC (40kw delivered) in 34 minutes. At a 50 kw DC charger a model 3 would have taken the same amount of time, at a 150 Kw charger a model 3 may have been 10-14 minutes faster.
Clamps
Active Member
Just doing research and it's the best info I could find, a Kona charging from 10 to 80% is right around 50 minutes. What I could find for the Model 3 was a 10 to 80% in 25 minutes (and I believe the Model 3 has a larger battery pack and still gets to 80% well before the Kona). That's significantly faster. And while people note that you can stop and rest at charging stops there is no denying the convenience of speed.
I think maybe you misunderstand my reason for this post. I did not make it to imply that the Kona Electric is an inferior car. Quite the contrary, I think it's miles ahead of vehicles that aren't even released yet and blows away most of it's contemporaries with the one exception being charging speed. I understand the charging infrastructure is still a mixed bag but it's improving and will improve as need dictates.
I used to think range was the most important thing in an EV but as soon as cars like the Bolt, Model 3, Niro and Kona came along that was no longer an issue. I think the second most important thing is charging speed. Trust me, I get that you can adapt to a long range EV but for mass acceptance charging speed will be key. To me 15 minutes for an average EV charge from 10 to 80% will be as big a deal as range is to most people today. Probably the next big deal will be battery longevity or degradation management... maybe that's more important than charging speed but I think general consumers will be more focused on charge times.
R P
Well-Known Member
Some people will not be satisfied until charging time is the same as filling up gas with an ICE car. But there is a meaningful threshold where enough is enough as others here have attested. It is the same with range, when you reach that enough threshold, those concerns go away (from actual owners). And for me, the Kona definitely meets both of those thresholds. Same could be said about HP, you only need so much.
Are you willing to pay a lot more for more than enough, even though you don't need it? And give up all the other advantages the Kona has over the Tesla M3? Even if they cost the same, I would choose the Kona,... in a heartbeat. And it is my son who owns a Tesla M3 that steered me to the Kona.
Are you willing to pay a lot more for more than enough, even though you don't need it? And give up all the other advantages the Kona has over the Tesla M3? Even if they cost the same, I would choose the Kona,... in a heartbeat. And it is my son who owns a Tesla M3 that steered me to the Kona.
Clamps
Active Member
I don't think you have to get to the equivalent of an ICE car fill-up for recharge times, as I stated earlier 15 minutes is a good number. Obviously charge time is important as manufacturers are attempting at increasing speed for recharge. They would not invest capital in that research if they didn't think the market wanted it. The forthcoming ID series will be 125 kW, the Ford Mach E is 115 - 150 kW and I'm certain new models will push that envelope over time.
I'm not denying that you can adapt to a current EV like the Kona and be satisfied. I've been driving an electric Smart for three years within it's limits and am quite content.
You ask if I would pay more or the same for a Model 3 vs Kona. I don't know, I'm debating that right now and it's really a question for a different thread. My likes and dislikes between the two are based on a wide range of factors not just charging times. I simply think it's one of the Kona's weak links, especially since the car excels in every other facet.
A different question. Would you buy a Kona Electric that had it's current charge times or say a Kona that charged twice as fast?
I'm not denying that you can adapt to a current EV like the Kona and be satisfied. I've been driving an electric Smart for three years within it's limits and am quite content.
You ask if I would pay more or the same for a Model 3 vs Kona. I don't know, I'm debating that right now and it's really a question for a different thread. My likes and dislikes between the two are based on a wide range of factors not just charging times. I simply think it's one of the Kona's weak links, especially since the car excels in every other facet.
A different question. Would you buy a Kona Electric that had it's current charge times or say a Kona that charged twice as fast?
Tim94549
Active Member
OK, since this is all about charging & charge TIMES, I thought the stats in this image were interesting. I didn't really realize that there is a huge difference between charging kw and the type of Plug being used. (yea, I get the slowness of the AC charging plug.) I'm really new to this EV stuff - so it's all been quite an education. As I found in this picture, there really are 3 levels of charging - Slow, Fast, and Rapid .. What really struck me was that even a 22kw FAST Charger charges at the same speed of a 7kw FAST Charger - presumably because the Kona only charges at 7kw when using the TOP part of the plug-in connector). The RAPID chargers utilize the additional 2 Pins at the bottom of the Charging plug. There are very few RAPID charging stations in the EA & ChargePoint networks. What I *HAVE* read was there apparently is a conversion cable that can allow a TESLA charging station to connect to our KONA's. Not sure how those work, or if that is even true for that matter -- or if it requires a legit TESLA account. Fortunately for me, I don't put on that many miles and my in-home 50amp charging station is more that sufficient.
R P
Well-Known Member
That's a very slanted leading question. Of course I would, as anyone would. But not if I had to pay a bunch more. It is the same with HP and range. Of course I would choose more, if the price was near the same.
But I would not give up perforated leather seats with air cooling for the summer (M3 = sweaty butts), no AndroidAuto and CarPlay, bland interior (top trim Corolla has nicer interior than the M3), no cargo space for taller items (like a big cooler), and more...
Clamps
Active Member
I don't think so, earlier you stated that enough is enough and the Kona meets your thresholds. For my needs the Kona has more than enough HP and I think the battery range is above average and completely acceptable if not exemplary but the charge speed while good by todays standards could be improved and there are cars existing and forthcoming that will and have best it. I understand the Kona is a car of it's time and the tech is changing so fast that all the current cars today will probably be considered oddities in ten years time.
I guess what I'm really saying is that the Kona is a wonderfully forward looking vehicle as is with the exception of charging speed.
I'm not trying to debate Model 3 v Kona I was just able to find the charge speed vids earlier to illustrate my point.
R P
Well-Known Member
Well, I guess if you think the extra charging speed of the M3 is more important than all the other advantages the Kona has, and you are willing to pay for that, then your choice is obvious. Sounds like you are just trying to convince yourself.
Clamps
Active Member
I keep trying to tell you I did not create this thread to debate M3 v Kona. I have not made one statement listing off the M3's other advantages. I used the Tesla as a benchmark for charging speed because it's exceptional and readily available. You and others have quite rightly explained that you are happy with and tolerate/appreciate the charging speed of the Kona. Matter of fact I have made nothing but positive statements regarding the Kona and just one perceived weakness about rapid charging speed.
R P
Well-Known Member
OK, sorry if I sounded like I was coming on too strong and incorrectly assumed your intent. You are correct and smart to look deep at all aspects. In the end, you need to decide what you want and is best for you. I am surprised at the availability of the Kona EV down there, though. Opposite up here.