Hope everyone is enjoying the gas prices!

turtleturtle

turtleturtle

Active Member
So glad we have a Clarity for quick trips around town with where we are with gas prices. Using the Clarity far more than the Pilot.

I thought gas prices would level off and come back down, but they went up again!

I ran the math, and even charging up at an Electrify America while parked at Target is cheaper than filling up the tank, by far. Of course cheapest is filling up at home, but that’s only L1.
 
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My comments here are mostly aimed at those curious about electric cars.

At the end of 2017 we had 7.35KW of solar installed on our house. Then we purchased the Clarity. At the time I computed that it would take 8 years of home electricity grid savings plus car gas savings to pay off the cost of the solar installation. The addition of the car was what made the solar installation work financially. With gas prices being what they are that payback period has been reduced to 7 years now.

In the mid-day sun, after we've driven the Clarity for a while on EV that day, the solar system will supply all of the house needs and it will be almost enough to recharge the car while the car is charging. In other words for the short time the car is being charged the car plus the house need is greater than the solar system can supply. We are on a net metering plan with the city. The city supply's the little extra needed to charge the Clarity's battery. Then when the Clarity is fully charged (about 1 hour typically) the solar system will feed the house and send the rest of the solar power to the city. The city acts like a battery for us. Normally on a daily basis the electricity meter on the house, at the end of the day, will read lower than at the start of the day.

So far we've never charged at a public station in 4 years of driving. Out of town trips, and vacations, total only 30 days out of the year's 360 days. All of the rest of the time we are on EV. Being a PHEV stopping for gas is 5 to 10 minutes on those long trips. It's the best of both worlds. I would like a BEV but the charge times are too long for those longer trips. I'll wait until charge times are down to 15 minutes on a car costing less than $35K, with at least 250 miles of range. Those cars are coming in a couple of years.

For those who think EVs still pollute the air due to manufacturing of the batteries a PHEV only uses about 1/4 the the size of a BEV battery so the PHEV pollutes less during manufacturing.

For those who think EVs still pollute the air due to dirty grid power our solar system actually helps by pumping our extra solar power to the grid. When we need power from the grid we are blessed in Redding CA because no coal is used, and wind and solar represent a l large portion of the power generation.

The shift from ICE to EV is going to happen when people begin to understand the benefits.
 
laptop said:
Shhhh, I already have to queue up at the chargers…
But filing the Subaru Outback is painful…


Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
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I know your pain. Soon it will be summer and along with that comes boating. The boat gets three miles per gallon and towing the boat/trailer gets about ten miles per gallon. A day of boating is going to be expensive this year.
 
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turtleturtle said:
So glad we have a Clarity for quick trips around town with where we are with gas prices. Using the Clarity far more than the Pilot.

I thought gas prices would level off and come back down, but they went up again!

I ran the math, and even charging up at an Electrify America while parked at Target is cheaper than filling up the tank, by far. Of course cheapest is filling up at home, but that’s only L1.
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This is a long story. I don't think I'd read it if I saw how long it is. It's about my exasperating visit to the Mugg & Bopps gas station last week. Fortunately, InsideEVs doesn't charge by the word.

I hadn't been to a gas station all year, but I was tapped for possible jury duty 50 miles away in Detroit and decided to top-off the tank, which the gauge indicated was half-full. The gasoline gods were not happy that I hadn't been worshiping at their alter and they made my rare visit very difficult.

I use only ethanol-free gas in my Clarity because I want to believe it lasts longer in the tank (I add Stabil, too). The closest gas station that has this gas is 18 miles west of Ann Arbor.

First, the pump ate my card and wouldn't give me any gas or give me my card back. I went inside to get help. The cashier came out, carrying a plastic bag. She put the plastic bag over the nozzle to indicate the pump was broken and told me she would have to reboot the pump to get my card out.

I told her I'd driven all the way from Ann Arbor for her ethanol-free gas and wanted to know if there was any way she could get the pump working again. She sympathized with me and said she would reboot the pump. After the pump was rebooted she would turn it on and I whould be able to fill up.

When the 10-minute reboot completed, I stuck my card back in the slot. The pump ignored my card and the display continued to say I had to pay first. This time I was able to extract my credit card. I went back inside and the cashier asked me how much gas I wanted to pre-pay for. I said I wanted to fill up. She told me I should authorize my card for more gas than a fill-up and any of the authorized money that wasn't used would be credited back to my credit card. I requested $20 of the $5.40/gallon ethanol-free nectar.

Still the pump wouldn't respond, continuing to display the message to pre-pay inside. I went back inside and the cashier said I'd have to use the other side of that pump, the only pump with ethanol-free gas. Oh, and she would need my credit card again to authorize the other side of that pump.

I went outside with the intention of moving my Clarity on the other side of the pump island. To my consternation, a mail truck pulled up to the other side of the pump and was about to suck down my $20 of pre-authorized gasoline. I ran back inside and the cashier came out and told the lady in the mail truck she couldn't use that pump.

I finally got my Clarity sidled up to the working side of the island. This side of the pump worked and it didn't take long to top-off my Clarity's teeny-weeny 7-gallon tank.

Saving my gas-station receipts makes me feel good because my complete Clarity collection is so small. To get my receipt, I had to make yet another trip inside. I didn't look at it, assuming it was like all the other gas-station receipts I've collected. I should have looked at it because later I realized it didn't list how many gallons I'd purchased, only that I'd authorized a maximum expenditure of $20 (thankfully, not $40). Three days later the credit-card website revealed I'd purchased $17.55 worth of gasoline at Mugg & Bopps. I then calculated the 3.25-gallon top-off--less half of the Clarity's 7-gallon tank.

My experience at Mugg & Bopps made me very happy I won't have to visit a gas station again for a long time. Although the gasoline gods were against me, the federal judicial gods took pity on me and I didn't get called to appear for jury duty in Detroit. I wonder if Mugg & Bopps is secretly working for Electrify America to help speed the adoption of EVs in our county?
 
While I do enjoy the relatively low cost of operating the Clarity on battery power, I would have to ignore the impact that high fuel prices have on all of us in order to say that I enjoy the current price of fuel. So, no, I can’t say that I enjoy higher fuel prices.
 
My wife has a hybrid Lexus which gets about 37 mpg around town, so her cost per mile driven is about 13.1 cents. I get about 4.3 mile per Kw of electricity which costs me 8.6 cents, so my cost per mile driven is about 2 cents.
 
Yep, it seems that high gas cost does drive interest in hybrid/electric vehicles so that part is good. And as noted, it is hard on many, maybe everyone when we consider everything has some transportation cost.

I've always liked my Clarity and it seems even more valuable now; my commute is 100% EV so I can control if I buy gas.
 
Dan Albrich said:
Yep, it seems that high gas cost does drive interest in hybrid/electric vehicles so that part is good. And as noted, it is hard on many, maybe everyone when we consider everything has some transportation cost.

I've always liked my Clarity and it seems even more valuable now; my commute is 100% EV so I can control if I buy gas.
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If Honda still sold the Clarity PHEV, would the current gas prices finally enable dealers to sell the car without having to discount below Honda's MSRP? Does anyone at Honda regret terminating the Clarity at exactly the wrong moment?
 
insightman said:
If Honda still sold the Clarity PHEV, would the current gas prices finally enable dealers to sell the car without having to discount below Honda's MSRP? Does anyone at Honda regret terminating the Clarity at exactly the wrong moment?
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Probably not with the Dongfeng Honda e:NS1 and the GAC Honda e:NP1 in China.
 
insightman said:
If Honda still sold the Clarity PHEV, would the current gas prices finally enable dealers to sell the car without having to discount below Honda's MSRP? Does anyone at Honda regret terminating the Clarity at exactly the wrong moment?
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Even at MSRP it would likely be a money loser for them. Currently, it seems, every manufacturer is selling every model at or above MSRP. What would be the advantage of keeping a car in the line up that doesn’t make a profit?
 
bpratt said:
My wife has a hybrid Lexus which gets about 37 mpg around town, so her cost per mile driven is about 13.1 cents. I get about 4.3 mile per Kw of electricity which costs me 8.6 cents, so my cost per mile driven is about 2 cents.
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My 12mpg truck costs over $.40/mile. Our 8.3mpg motorhome is more that $.60/mile. Then I got to thinking about the riding mower. It uses about 1 gallon per acre. Cutting a 4’ wide path it must travel about 2 miles to mow an acre. That would put it over $2/mile.
 
Landshark said:
Even at MSRP it would likely be a money loser for them. Currently, it seems, every manufacturer is selling every model at or above MSRP. What would be the advantage of keeping a car in the line up that doesn’t make a profit?
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If, indeed, Honda lost money selling Clarity PHEVs at MSRP, you're right, only consumers, not the company, would benefit from continuing to manufacture this fuel-efficient car.

Honda's dumping the Insight in favor of an i-MMD Civic Hybrid. Wouldn't it also make sense to replace the Clarity PHEV with an Accord PHEV or a CR-V PHEV? Years ago a prototype Pilot PHEV was spotted--whatever happened to that?

I was so frustrated that Honda wouldn't bring their only EV, the Honda e, to the US that after 35 years of driving nothing but Hondas I bought a MINI EV. Why are they abandoning their PHEV technology and, instead of building their own EV for the US, rebadging a GM SUV EV for the US? Did all of Honda's EV engineers jump ship for other companies?
 
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insightman said:
If, indeed, Honda lost money selling Clarity PHEVs at MSRP, you're right, only consumers, not the company, would benefit from continuing to manufacture this fuel-efficient car.

Honda's dumping the Insight in favor of an i-MMD Civic Hybrid. Wouldn't it also make sense to replace the Clarity PHEV with an Accord PHEV or a CR-V PHEV? Years ago a prototype Pilot PHEV was spotted--whatever happened to that?

I was so frustrated that Honda wouldn't bring their only EV, the Honda e, to the US that after 35 years of driving nothing but Hondas I bought a MINI EV. Why are they abandoning their PHEV technology and, instead of building their own EV for the US, rebadging a GM SUV EV for the US? Did all of Honda's EV engineers jump ship for other companies?
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I have always suspected that at MSRP they either broke even or made a small profit, otherwise I don't think they would have attempted to sell the car in all fifty states, most of which did not benefit Honda in terms of CARB credit. I have always thought they ended the nationwide experiment after one year because they realized that the car would not sell without several thousand in factory incentives, which made it a loss. They accepted this loss in the ZEV states, at least initially on the East Coast but then they cut back to just California, perhaps they needed CARB credits there the most. Plus they never sold very well on the East Coast even with factory incentives. Not that it was a runaway hit in California either, but they did seem to sell a number of them. A lot of those were bought by people who just wanted it for the HOV stickers.

Just my theories, other theories are equally valid since we really don't know. I think possibly another factor is that during the Clarity years Honda seemed to shift around in its EV strategies, wanting to appear green, wanting to stay current and build experience to make sure they don't fall behind, but apparently deciding that widespread EV adoption is still a few years off so they seem to be just treading water for now with regular hybrids and eventually a few EV offerings.

Another problem is that PHEV's have never been understood by the general public, made worse by the trashing they get by many in the EV community. EV sales, while slowly growing, remain relatively small (I think it's now around 3% of new cars sales). There are a number of reasons for this including public misconceptions. But in reality for the average consumer who doesn't want even tiny additional complications in their life, an EV creates one because of the need for 240V upgrade in the home, as well as the complications and potential inconveniences that can occur on longer trips.

A PHEV requires no electrical upgrades in the home, as long as there is a standard outlet available they are good to go. The miniscule amount of time it takes to plug in is more than offset by the time savings of not having to fill up at the local gas station nearly as often. And no need to charge on trips, just find a gas station. The benefit is huge reductions in gasoline usage, which for most people will be quite substantial. If this was understood by more people I think there would be a lot more interest in PHEV's, especially now. Instead PHEV's still seem to be thought of as an EV with a gas backup, which leads immediately to focusing on the "woefully inadequate" EV range compared to a full EV, which misses the point. Another advantage currently with PHEV's is that the technology works well with standard size and weight cars, whereas EV's still tend to have to lean towards smaller and lighter in order to keep the range high. That will eventually change, as will charging infrastructure, eventually eliminating the need for hybrids and PHEV's, but that is still a long time off in my opinion.
 
Frankwell said:
Another problem is that PHEV's have never been understood by the general public
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Honda never made any effort to educate the public by promoting the Clarity PHEV (another indication they didn't make much, if any, profit on the car). IMO, Hyundai's no gas, no squeegee commercial and their gas-card commercial are great ways to start getting the message across. Unfortunately for Honda, the fuel-efficient Clarity PHEV arrived after Americans decided they wanted to drive only SUVs and pickup trucks--a decision facilitated by artificially cheap gas. In contrast, Hyundai's PHEVs came along at exactly the right time as gas prices continue to soar.
 
insightman said:
Honda never made any effort to educate the public by promoting the Clarity PHEV (another indication they didn't make much, if any, profit on the car).
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I think that's correct. Honda doesn't feel like leading the charge on any of this, thus they have no interest in educating the public on a type of car that most people don't know even exists. They seem happy to let others take the lead on anything EV, and they just want to make sure that they are not too far behind so that they can respond relatively quickly to any emerging trends. For example I'm sure they feel confident that they can get back into the PHEV market if they start getting popular.

The Hyundai Santa Fe I think is a good example of what I was saying about larger vehicles being more feasible and affordable in PHEV than EV. Something similar in an EV would be very expensive, which is why most EV owners wind up getting something more affordable like a Model 3 or a Leaf. For similar or less money they can get the type of car of car that they actually want and still eliminate a huge amount of gasoline use. Now if someone actually wants a small car, which some people do, that's great and an EV is well suited for them. But that's not most people, I think most people usually only buy smaller cars because they are cheaper. With obvious exceptions like sports cars, but again that's not the type of car most people buy.
 
And look, InsideEVs has just posted an image of Honda's Prologue, a rebadged GM crossover EV (I say "rebadged" only because I assume if it's Ultium-based, GM will be making the whole vehicle for Honda). It looks better than any GM crossover, but vehicles that make it to the showroom seldom look as good as their concept images.
 
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insightman said:
Wouldn't it also make sense to replace the Clarity PHEV with an Accord PHEV or a CR-V PHEV? Years ago a prototype Pilot PHEV was spotted--whatever happened to that?
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insightman said:
Why are they abandoning their PHEV technology and, instead of building their own EV for the US, rebadging a GM SUV EV for the US? Did all of Honda's EV engineers jump ship for other companies?
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I have no answers for you. I also have exactly zero interest in trying to understand why a company makes a particular decision. As a general rule, a company that manufactures products typically strives to produce products that generate a profit.

I’ve never run a multi-billion dollar global company, so any of my suggestions would probably fall on deaf ears at Honda. Even after a proper translation.

Of course, if I were King, all of my subjects would be toiling away 24/7 building PHEV’s. Such is not the case, so, like all the other minions, I buy what’s available, that best suits my needs. Next up is a Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xe. A PHEV with a claimed 25 mile EV range. Would I like more range? Yes. However, 20-25 miles will handle almost all daily driving errands. It will also be the secondary vehicle. Forced into action during snowy conditions and towed behind the motorhome, where it will be charged at RV parks. It isn’t perfect, but it will allow us to travel the first 25 miles on batteries, rather than a $5.00+ gallon of diesel. No whining here.
 
I think is not that Honda canceled the Clarity at the wrong moment but they tried to introduce it at the wrong moment, with gas so cheap I would run it on HV more than 50% of the time without remorse. Now I drive EV for months without resorting to the gas tank except for long freeway trips, so I sadly laugh at the previously never seen $5.25 signs on Las Vegas pumps. I wish they have kept the Clarity available. I picked it up among all the available PHEVs not only because I wanted to drive some sort of electric car without range anxiety (the reason I wanted ANY PHEV), but because it had the best EV-only range and trunk space among its fellow PHEVs, and also because of its comfort and looks. Still would do. And I know a lot of people which still would buy a Clarity given the present (with no end in sight) gas situation, and for exactly the same reasons. But, as @Landshark wisely said, who knows why a company makes a particular decision? Even it it looks senseless to us customers, it might be totally sound judgment to the stakeholders. You see that around all the time lately...
 
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