Honda has a new Li ion battery partner - CATL

Ray B

Ray B

Active Member
By the way, it looks like their battery specs have 3x the specific energy of the Clarity's current battery (240 Wh/kg compared to 78.6 Wh/kg). So the battery mass could be scaled back by 2/3 or they could keep the same mass and increase the EV-only range by 3x. Very simplistic to surmise that based on one stat (who knows how the cost or longevity compares), but it looks like they are headed in an aggressive direction.

From the final paragraph in this article (https://www.electrive.com/2018/08/15/catl-rushing-to-launch-ncm-811-battery-cells-first/), I think the answer to the question is 'Honda'. :)

Here's their (optimistic?) technology forecast/roadmap:
CATL_Strategy.webp
 
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Robert_Alabama said:
It'd be nice in a few years if Honda offered an economic upgrade option for the Clarity to increase the kWh of the battery pack through replacement.
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That would be a first in the US for ANY manufacturer (BMW had it on the i3 in some markets - BMW USA chose not to offer the option).
Since Honda is not anywhere near the front of the pack in regards to innovative EV programs, I think it very unlikely.
 
Forgot about the Roadster - they did hand built upgrades for $29K :eek:. Not sure how many took them up on it and it is no longer offered. Plus, not sure that really fits the definition of "economic upgrade" ;).
 
That's a lot, but didn't the Roadster originally sell for about $150k? The Honda is a lot less and in a few years batteries are expected to be at least half the price they are now.
 
That's good to know, but I wonder how the pricing will work. I think the key to EV mass adoption is price parity with ICE vehicles so hopefully they hit that sooner than later.
 
Aren't those Chinese CATL batteries only for Chinese Hondas? I read that companies want their Li-Ion battery suppliers to be as close as possible to the place where they manufacture the cars that use them.
 
I can’t see why an economical AND profitable (for Honda) battery upgrade program down the line wouldn’t be an option. I mean, eventually these batteries in our Claritys will wear out and need to be replaced. When that time comes I’m sure more than a few people would shell out even several thousand dollars to not only breathe new life into their cars but to also essentially make them better than new. I think 2 things would be required for me to consider it:

1. The capacity of the new batter would have to be SIGNIFICANTLY improved vis a vis the upgrade cost (from a ROI perspective).
2. I would need to be able to get other upgrades to the vehicle to keep it worth driving (I’m looking at you underpowered Android tablet as a head unit).


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insightman said:
Aren't those Chinese CATL batteries only for Chinese Hondas? I read that companies want their Li-Ion battery suppliers to be as close as possible to the place where they manufacture the cars that use them.
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It isn't absolutely clear, but in the Reuters version it includes a quote:

“The agreement focuses on supply of EV batteries in Asia,” Honda spokeswoman Tomoko Takemori said, declining to give further details on which of its models would use CATL batteries.
“We could also consider some supply for the North American market.”​

I believe CATL is opening up a mfg location in Germany soon, so that would cover that part of the world.
 
Kyle’s Clarity said:
I can’t see why an economical AND profitable (for Honda) battery upgrade program down the line wouldn’t be an option.
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I'm not saying it will never happen, but there are at least two strong reasons why currently, of all auto makers selling highway-capable passenger car EVs in the USA, only Nissan will sell you a replacement battery pack:

1. An auto maker would much rather sell you a new car than a new battery pack

2. With demand for EVs rising much faster than battery cell production, EV makers are facing inadequate cell supply for their near-future plans for production of EVs. For example, VW has had to make contracts with multiple cell makers, because no one of them could supply their near-term (the next 2-4 years) needs.

Furthermore, there is a good reason why you, the consumer, shouldn't buy a new replacement battery pack for your out-of-warranty EV: It's the same reason people generally avoid putting a new engine in an old gasmobile.

Now, there may be a good argument for refurbishing old battery packs and using those for replacements. But getting a new battery pack for an older EV, so that the car will likely wear out before the new pack does, would be a waste of money.
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