Heating the Car

A

Atul Thakkar

Active Member
Hello;
I am typically driving 80km( 50 mile) back and forth from work return trip and thus I am generally full on normal summer days and when I return , my battery is empty depending on weather.
Now that winter is coming and I am in Canada , so temperature has started dropping here , so now I need to put heating in equation. I have also noted that heating quality is much better when engine is on.
I have following questions:
1) If I turn ON climate control remotely , Do I need to set temperature to 72 deg f before I turn off my car at night?
2) Since I have to start engine any way , is it o k to start engine as soon as I get in , so that there is no load on battery for heating in event when I forgot to turn on climate control?
2) After I get good temperature is it o k to use the car like how we used to use the car in summer time by turning A/C off and get air circulation ON internally when possible?
3) what is your best way to heat the car using engine or Battery or combination in my scenario?

Any thoughts in this regards is appreciated, Thanks In advance.
 
I believe the temperature is controlled by the remote climate feature so you don't have to set anything (could be wrong about this). If the car is too cold it will heat it. If the car is to warm it will cool it.

Turn the remote climate on. When you get in the car turn the heat off and just use the heated seats.
 
It would be nice if the Clarity would display the kW being used at any moment like my wife's Bolt. I will say, from our experience with the Bolt, that the heater can consume as much power as driving 30+MPH (my wife does not like the cold) until the cabin warms up, after that is is rarely above 4kW to run the heat. Can you have it plugged into a 240v charger in the morning? That would let you heat the cabin without hitting the car's battery(will not work on the 120v plug. If not, since your gas engine will come on anyway on your commute you might try running the engine at the beginning to warm up the fluid/cabin and then 1/2 way there switch to EV mode. Keep track of your MPG displays and see what works best(i.e. where you switch to EV mode. You want to get back home with 1 mile of EV range). Since you drive the route daily you should be able to come up with the best way of handling it fairly quickly. Let us know how it goes.
 
I also wish the Clarity had some more energy displays. My Leaf has more information available. Does the remote heat start activate the heated seats?
 
Chuck said:
Can you have it plugged into a 240v charger in the morning? That would let you heat the cabin without hitting the car's battery
Click to expand...

I'm not sure, but it does disconnect the 120v charger when you turn on climate control which is unfortunate. Unless you are in a real cold/hot area though it shouldn't use too much power and still leave you with a good amount for your drive.
 
Atul, to answer your question about temperature. What I read is that the Clarity always uses 70 degrees for remote climate. Summer and winter.
 
Does anyone know how the heating system on the Clarity is engineered? Does the vehicle have only electrically generated heat capabilities or can it dray heat from the ICE core as well? Since it consumes KWH at a very rapid rate to heat the cabin here in the north this time of year, it might be a good strategy to run the ICE when first starting out to heat on longer trips and conserve the battery for later in the drive.
 
Chuck said:
It would be nice if the Clarity would display the kW being used at any moment like my wife's Bolt. I will say, from our experience with the Bolt, that the heater can consume as much power as driving 30+MPH (my wife does not like the cold) until the cabin warms up, after that is is rarely above 4kW to run the heat. Can you have it plugged into a 240v charger in the morning? That would let you heat the cabin without hitting the car's battery(will not work on the 120v plug. If not, since your gas engine will come on anyway on your commute you might try running the engine at the beginning to warm up the fluid/cabin and then 1/2 way there switch to EV mode. Keep track of your MPG displays and see what works best(i.e. where you switch to EV mode. You want to get back home with 1 mile of EV range). Since you drive the route daily you should be able to come up with the best way of handling it fairly quickly. Let us know how it goes.
Click to expand...
 
you can preheat using a 120V outlet as long as the car is done charging and still plugged in, which is usually the case first thing in the morning when you really need it.
 
Scottacus said:
Does anyone know how the heating system on the Clarity is engineered? Does the vehicle have only electrically generated heat capabilities or can it dray heat from the ICE core as well? Since it consumes KWH at a very rapid rate to heat the cabin here in the north this time of year, it might be a good strategy to run the ICE when first starting out to heat on longer trips and conserve the battery for later in the drive.
Click to expand...
It will use heat from engine if engine is hot. When the engine is cool, two valves will shut and keep the electrical heater and AC in a small loop.
 
The heating system uses a resistance element in the coolant loop from engine to heater core. It is surprisingly fast to warm up and can use engine heat when it is available. A level 1 EVSE does not supply enough power to charge and precondition at the same time; you can do one or the other but not both at the same time. That requires a level 2 EVSE.

The best explanation of preconditioning climate control is a Honda doc that I think was posted by @jdonalds and @AnthonyW. My apologies if I got that wrong and slighted someone. Please mention if you were the poster and I missed you.
I have attached the file and it will clear up a lot of misconceptions. It explains that there is a range of outside and inside temps that must be met in order for the preconditioning to begin. If temps are not in the ranges then you will not get any preconditioning. This may explain some of the complaints some have posted.
Also, several have posted that it may have a delay of several minutes before it kicks in. So be patient.
 

Attachments

toronto_clarity said:
When I turn on the auto climate control the passenger seat heater turns on with one bar automatically. Is this supposed to happen?
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I haven't noticed the passenger one, but sometimes it turns mine on to 1 bar (I then change it to 3 :D). Mine is sync'd as well but maybe try unsyncing the passenger side?
 
I’ve noticed driver’s seat heater turns on automatically below a certain temperature, did not notice this on the passenger side.
 
Vezz66 said:
I’ve noticed driver’s seat heater turns on automatically below a certain temperature, did not notice this on the passenger side.
Click to expand...

I believe the driver’s seat heater coming on automatically is associated with being in ECON mode. (owners manual p191):

“When the ECON mode is active, the driver’s side seat Heater functions according to the status of the
climate control system. If you want to use only the climate control system, press the seat heater button
to OFF.”
 
The Honda Clarity PHEV uses a coolant based electric heater that works like an on demand water heater. If you ask for heat it will heat the coolant and flow it through the heater core in the cabin (just like a gas engine would). Given that this is a coolant system, it is surprisingly quick to heat the air. It switches to using the engine for heat at very low temperatures (less than about 5 F (-15 C) or so, seems related more to battery temperature than air temperature).

Above is a copy /paste from link above for clarity PHEV
 
Compared to conventional hybrid electric vehicles, plug-in hybrid vehicles have a larger-capacity battery and an onboard charger. These devices are mounted in functionally optimal locations, so it is a challenge to provide a thermal management system that achieves a good balance between high cooling performance and low cost. The battery should be operated at required temperature to secure safety and durability at high temperatures, and to mitigate the decrease in output power and capacity. However, setting separate cooling systems suited for each device leads to both an increased cost and weight. Therefore, an integrated water cooling system was devised for the battery, charger, and DC-DC converter, and the cooling performance was verified through simulations and tests. A valve installed before the battery in the cooling circuit allows it to be bypassed when coolant temperature rises due the charger or low-speed engine operation, helping to preserve battery life. Conversely, this waste heat can be used to heat up the battery when it is cold. In addition, the target thermal resistances of all cooling components were appropriately determined so that the battery temperature does not exceed the upper limit even in high ambient temperature conditions. As a result, tests showed that high power continuous driving could be performed, using only radiator cooling, and without a derating in battery output even in a hot environment. The above results demonstrated that the developed integrated water cooling system satisfies the thermal management performance in all PHEV operation modes. The developed cooling system was used in the CLARITY PLUG-IN HYBRID and CLARITY ELECTRIC, which is the first adoption of a battery water cooling system in a Honda vehicle.

Copy paste from second link for clarity
 
I also have noticed that circulating air inside car will help maintain the temperature , however if you do on and off , it will fog the glass, however when the air inside is dry enough , that fog thing does not happen and then I keep internal circulation air ON , so that fresh air inflow do not drop down cabin temperature.

Preheating though definitely helps
 
Atul Thakkar said:
Compared to conventional hybrid electric vehicles, plug-in hybrid vehicles have a larger-capacity battery and an onboard charger. These devices are mounted in functionally optimal locations, so it is a challenge to provide a thermal management system that achieves a good balance between high cooling performance and low cost. The battery should be operated at required temperature to secure safety and durability at high temperatures, and to mitigate the decrease in output power and capacity. However, setting separate cooling systems suited for each device leads to both an increased cost and weight. Therefore, an integrated water cooling system was devised for the battery, charger, and DC-DC converter, and the cooling performance was verified through simulations and tests. A valve installed before the battery in the cooling circuit allows it to be bypassed when coolant temperature rises due the charger or low-speed engine operation, helping to preserve battery life. Conversely, this waste heat can be used to heat up the battery when it is cold. In addition, the target thermal resistances of all cooling components were appropriately determined so that the battery temperature does not exceed the upper limit even in high ambient temperature conditions. As a result, tests showed that high power continuous driving could be performed, using only radiator cooling, and without a derating in battery output even in a hot environment. The above results demonstrated that the developed integrated water cooling system satisfies the thermal management performance in all PHEV operation modes. The developed cooling system was used in the CLARITY PLUG-IN HYBRID and CLARITY ELECTRIC, which is the first adoption of a battery water cooling system in a Honda vehicle.

Copy paste from second link for clarity
Click to expand...

The full article is on post 15 of the link below. Although this article is related to keeping the electric powertrain in the predetermined temp range. This system is separate from the cabin coolant system.

Charging, Charge State and Battery Longevity
https://www.insideevsforum.com/comm...ing,-Charge-State-and-Battery-Longevity.2555/



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