Has Your Honda Clarity FCV Been "In the Shop" For a Long Time?
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David Yuan
New Member
My was in SC Honda from 12/16 to 2/24...
>>> How do you like the fuel cell powertrain?
It is OK. It's no Tesla, for sure. But good. Probably controlled by speed and acceleration governors, is my guess. But it is smooth and peppy. I can definitely accelerate away easily from most ICE cars at a stop light. The Clarity seems to appeal to Boomers. (Sorry; I am one.)
>>> How does the cost per mile for fuel compare with the Clarity Hybrid?
I don't pay much attention, because FUEL IS FREE. Honda (and maybe Toyota and Hyundai?) provides $15,000 in free hydrogen fuel over three years. Most drivers do not exceed that, I am told. At least I haven't. That plus a relatively low lease rate ($400 per month), HOV sticker, and big check from California (I think $5,000) were what sold me on trying this experiment out for three years. Good financial incentives.
I think fuel costs ~$16.45 per kilogram in northern California. Maybe 4-5 kg in a tank; I don't know. (You do NOT let the tank empty, though.) That is a little high, but should eventually drop if the fuel cell experiment eventually takes off and there were more competing fuel centers. I'm told it cost $1-2 million per fuel station. Plus it's a regulatory hassle.
I believe that to fill the car up it is a little more than filling the equivalent Accord (or whatever) with premium gas. So not cheap, but tolerable, maybe. But like I said--FREE! There would probably be few people driving these if that was not true.
>>> Most of us have no experience with fuel cell tech.
I understand. The fuel cell is an old idea (early 1900s?). NASA used fuel cells on the Apollo missions of the '60s. It is basically a way to chemically/physically convert hydrogen and oxygen into electricity (free electrons stored in on-board batteries) and a little water. No combustion. No pollution (by the car). Just as safe (or not safe) as a gasoline car. More quiet. Less heat. BVlah, blah...
There are some great discussion on this and other forum sites debating hydrogen-powered versus electrical-grid powered electric car economies and futures. I am left thinking that hydrogen is not the viable long-term solution, but I do not know for sure. And it appears to me to be worth trying out now, as we are doing with hybrid cars. The hydrogen thing somewhat mimics gasoline (e.g., quick fill ups at for-profit company-owned fuel centers), so is maybe more palatable to some drivers and to corporate America.
I kind of like the Tesla (and other electric car) model, but that has its share of problems, also. We desperately need (a) better batteries, (b) faster charging equipment, and (c) more of those things. For example, I hear that driving a hydrogen car from Sacramento to LA is no problem (assuming the single fueling station at Harris Ranch is working, which it usually is). If it is, fueling takes little more time that filling up with gasoline. That's convenient. No gasoline bill for visiting grandma at Thanksgiving. Meanwhile, there are more Tesla (and other) recharging centers along that route. but "speedy" charging takes, what, up to an hour or two? And there can be long lines (e.g., at Thanksgiving) for superchargers.
What is clear to me is that gasoline and diesel are on the way out. Glad I lived to see changes like that (along with the start of basic human rights improvements, too) in my lifetime. But it is just the very beginning of the end for those fuels. How long the full transition will take is an open question. The coming super pickups (Tesla, Rivian, Bollinger, etc.) may help convince a lot of guys (sorry--and gals), if they perform.
Meanwhile, super fuel cell race cars at Le Mans soon!
That's "Stevens Creek" Honda of San Jose, California, USA, I believe -- for those of you who do not speak the Clarity fuel cell car lingo.
OK, maybe. But most BEVs are (a) not Teslas and/or (b) not new Teslas. But let's say you are right. That is still, what, three times longer than it takes to fuel with gasoline. And lines at some SCs at some times are a problem. Right? (Like gas pump lines in the 1970s.)
BTW: We are on the same side. I thoroughly dislike ICE as a power source and will probably buy a Tesla either this year or next. (Help! Model S or Model X?) I'm just parroting the experts; we need faster charging and better batteries.
Better batteries are coming, waiting on Tesla's Drivetrain and Battery Investor's Day (April? May?). So you want a full size car bigger than your Clarity? Then if you want 7 seat capability or need large cargo area then Model X otherwise Model S. If you want to stay in mid size then Model Y (also much cheaper).
David Yuan
New Member
Not sure about others, but the Clarity FC is rated at 350+ miles...I 'd be happy if I get over 260 miles per fill...
The range usually hover around 230-240 in the winter time...when I got my fuel cell stack replaced, I saw 297 on a full tank, but that quickly went down...280 on the next one and if my math is right, the actual dance would be just 260 this time...I average 55-60 miles per kg, the car has a 5.5kg tank, so something is not right here...I should be getting at least 300 miles on each fill up...
Also, the two fuel stations I use, have all raised their price to over $18+/kg...some fill ups are over $70, but as tps pointed out, it's free for us : )
The range usually hover around 230-240 in the winter time...when I got my fuel cell stack replaced, I saw 297 on a full tank, but that quickly went down...280 on the next one and if my math is right, the actual dance would be just 260 this time...I average 55-60 miles per kg, the car has a 5.5kg tank, so something is not right here...I should be getting at least 300 miles on each fill up...
Also, the two fuel stations I use, have all raised their price to over $18+/kg...some fill ups are over $70, but as tps pointed out, it's free for us : )
I sill have not definitely pinned down my current range on a full tank of H2. (The West Sacramento pump is nearly always acting up and does not put as much H2 into tanks as it used to. I used to fill up at a pressure of well over 700 bar at a fill-up. Now it is down in the mid-600s or lower.) I'll have to try filling up at the properly-operating Shell pump off of I-80 in north Sacramento, but I don't get up there regularly.
But my sense is that yes, my 2017 Clarity FCV has declined significantly in maximum range (maybe 250 miles or less), also.
Could this be because fuel pumps have (a) adjusted the total fill-up pressures down or because (b) the fuel cell stacks have become less efficient over time (or both)? Keep in mind also that, as with ICE cars, mileage varies greatly with driving habits. I have a "lead foot," so my range on a full tank was never over 300.
As of last week it was still $16.45-$16.54 per kg in the Sacramento area, I believe. I thought prices in LA had fallen (because of more competition)? But maybe after last summer's (June 2019) H2 fuel crisis, prices went up?
Latest (01/14/21) Issue:
"Power System Problem. Stop Driving When Safe." Car shuts off except for battery power to drive slowly to the side of the road. I am waiting to get towed to AutoNation Honda of Roseville. How long will this repair take? Or will Honda give up and take the car back for crushing?
It looks like that warning message is associated with an old recall. But I've had the car in for several maintenance/recall issues, once for 2 1/2 months.
Well, my "good" FCV car has officially become a PITA. BEV, here I come.
"Power System Problem. Stop Driving When Safe." Car shuts off except for battery power to drive slowly to the side of the road. I am waiting to get towed to AutoNation Honda of Roseville. How long will this repair take? Or will Honda give up and take the car back for crushing?
It looks like that warning message is associated with an old recall. But I've had the car in for several maintenance/recall issues, once for 2 1/2 months.
Well, my "good" FCV car has officially become a PITA. BEV, here I come.
David Yuan
New Member
Yeah, my lease is up in April, due to all these bad experiences with the Honda Clarity, I decided I will not get another Fuel Cell car next...
The recall, the fuel shortage, (and Honda's unwillingness to pay for rental cars during), and Mountain View station's availability went from 16 hrs a day to 10 hrs a day is just too much...they even close at lunch for some reason from 11-1...
The recall, the fuel shortage, (and Honda's unwillingness to pay for rental cars during), and Mountain View station's availability went from 16 hrs a day to 10 hrs a day is just too much...they even close at lunch for some reason from 11-1...
Previously: When we (tow company and I) dropped the Honda Clarity FCV off at the authorized Honda repair shop on Thursday (01/14/21), the dash would not display the error messages. (Classic car repair story--not exhibiting the problem to the repair person.) Luckily I had taken photos, so they believed me.
The Car basically told me to pull over, Now!, and when I parked it would no longer go into "Drive." So it had to be towed to the shop. BTW, there was another (burgundy) Clarity in that shop for the same reason.
Despite previous repairs this is the first time I've had to have the car towed. Expensive (even with Honda covering $100). It was all a mystery, since my Clarity had already undergone the full (2 1/2 months) recall repair of the fuel cell stack last year. Would lengthy and expensive (for Honda) mechanical repairs once again needed? Or would Honda take the car back and end the lease?
January 17, 2021 Update:
I was informed by phone yesterday (01-16-21) that I will probably be able to pick the car up on Monday. They are just going to test it again to be sure it's safe. I will learn more but perhaps the problem wasn't strictly mechanical? Instead, maybe software, or an electrical issue? We'll see.
That's good news, I guess, but not if the problem is going to be intermittent. That could be dangerous if traveling at freeway speeds and forced to quickly pull over due to loss of power. I'll report again.
Anyone with similar stories?
The Car basically told me to pull over, Now!, and when I parked it would no longer go into "Drive." So it had to be towed to the shop. BTW, there was another (burgundy) Clarity in that shop for the same reason.
Despite previous repairs this is the first time I've had to have the car towed. Expensive (even with Honda covering $100). It was all a mystery, since my Clarity had already undergone the full (2 1/2 months) recall repair of the fuel cell stack last year. Would lengthy and expensive (for Honda) mechanical repairs once again needed? Or would Honda take the car back and end the lease?
January 17, 2021 Update:
I was informed by phone yesterday (01-16-21) that I will probably be able to pick the car up on Monday. They are just going to test it again to be sure it's safe. I will learn more but perhaps the problem wasn't strictly mechanical? Instead, maybe software, or an electrical issue? We'll see.
That's good news, I guess, but not if the problem is going to be intermittent. That could be dangerous if traveling at freeway speeds and forced to quickly pull over due to loss of power. I'll report again.
Anyone with similar stories?
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Update:
- Recall that my 2017 Honda Clarity FCV had the major fuel cell stack recall work done on it a year ago.
- On Thursday (01/14/21) my Honda Clarity FCV unexpectedly went into some sort of forced shut-down mode within a minute of leaving my home.
- It instructed me to pull over and put the car in "Park."
- After that it would "turn on" but not move.
- It exhibited warning messages in any setting except "Park." (See photos, Post #13, above.)
- I was forced to tow it (for the first time; $200 out of pocket) to the nearest authorized service center (in Roseville) for inspection and assessment.
- By the time it arrived at that Honda dealership (after several hours), it would not exhibit the error messages.
- I picked up the car today (01/19/20).
- The Clarity service staff could not find anything wrong. (That is worrisome.)
- They test drove it several times and the error messages did not reappear.
- They reset the message notification system.
- The general consensus is that it was some sort of computer issue.
- The Service manager feels that having the car sit undriven for two prior days might have contributed to the problem.
- He suggested that from here on in I should be sure to start up the car every day.
On the other hand, my alternatives are limited--to end the lease early and return the car to Honda, or to give it a go until May. I'd prefer not to have to return the car early (partly because I want to see what is going to happen, if anything, with a mythical 2021 "refresh" of the Tesla Models S and X). So I'll grit my teeth and attempt to drive it.
Please let us know if you experience anything like this with your Clarity FCV.
David Yuan
New Member
So I actually had a similar issue, but my issue was a big different in timing...
It also happened after the major 3 month recall.
I was filling up at Palo Alto station one night, upon disconnecting the hose, I heard a hissing noise...didint' think anything of it, and drove off...within a mile, I got a warning message saying "hydrogen tank leak, stop when safe...". I keep on going as my work is right around the corner but within the next 30 seconds, the car gets slower and slower and slower and I got stuck on the onramp of my work's parking lot...Trying to restart the car didn't help for the next 15 min...No power whatsoever...
Called a friend over and also called Honda roadside...they told us it'd be 2 hrs+ before a tow truck can come...friend arrived after about 45 min or so, and we were able to push the car into the parking lot to wait for the tow truck....Just for the heck of it, I push the power button again, and guess what? the car starts fine with ZERO error message...I had totally forgot about this since it was such a short "outage"....called back and cancelled the tow...
Dropped off at dealer and of course they couldn't' find anything wrong...oh well...
It also happened after the major 3 month recall.
I was filling up at Palo Alto station one night, upon disconnecting the hose, I heard a hissing noise...didint' think anything of it, and drove off...within a mile, I got a warning message saying "hydrogen tank leak, stop when safe...". I keep on going as my work is right around the corner but within the next 30 seconds, the car gets slower and slower and slower and I got stuck on the onramp of my work's parking lot...Trying to restart the car didn't help for the next 15 min...No power whatsoever...
Called a friend over and also called Honda roadside...they told us it'd be 2 hrs+ before a tow truck can come...friend arrived after about 45 min or so, and we were able to push the car into the parking lot to wait for the tow truck....Just for the heck of it, I push the power button again, and guess what? the car starts fine with ZERO error message...I had totally forgot about this since it was such a short "outage"....called back and cancelled the tow...
Dropped off at dealer and of course they couldn't' find anything wrong...oh well...
OK. Next time I will definitely try letting the car's computer sort itself out before calling for a tow. (Like doing a "reboot" on a computer.)
Thanks.
Id just go BEV at this point. Why tolerate slower cars with these issues and lack of refuelling stations. Not sure of a refresh of the Model S, unless u want to get the Plaid which will be the defacto leader of all production cars in the world lol.
I hear you, and fully agree. Except,...what do you think of the new Lucid Air model(s) coming? Is Lucid a potential Tesla-slayer?
Not a potential slayer not even close. There arent enough electric cars on the road as it is. The real competition is ICE vs BEV
And LUCID/RIVIAN are all talk. Tesla is the only one in the game actually making money in the BEV business. They are literally years ahead. The stock price however is not justified lol
The good: I've been driving the car since 1/19/21 without any further problems. I do not start it every day.
The bad: The West Sacramento hydrogen fuel pump (at 12 miles away, the closest one to me) has been offline for going on two months now, for a much-anticipated and long-delayed full replacement of Linde's/Iwatanai's oldest hydrogen pump equipment. It was supposed to be back online in mid-February; now it is mid-March. I predict that once it is operating this much-needed upgrade will be great for remaining hydrogen-fuel-cell-car drivers in the Yolo and Sacramento Counties areas. However, for me it is too little, too late. I will be returning my Honda Clarity FCV sometime before June and 2021 have already purchased a new Tesla Model X.
I enjoyed the Honda car; it was my first taste of modern automotive features. But I will not miss the hassles and chronic low-grade anxiety (punctuated by the occasional acute panic) stemming from where the nearest fueling facility, and whether it is even open. Plus, I have not enjoyed what I've read about the hydrogen production-delivery-storage-use infrastructure--for example that it is allegedly up to three times less energy-efficient than pure electricity-generation and in-car battery storage. Hydrogen as an automotive energy-storage medium is arguably on the way out.
The ugly: I've read rumors that Clarity FCVs will be "crunched" upon return to Honda. If true, this is somewhat disturbingly reminiscent of the whole "Who Killed the Electric Car?" thing. (BTW, I strongly recommend that 2006 movie, plus the intriguing followup, 2011's "Revenge of the Electric Car." Watch Elon Musk almost have a breakdown.)
