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bwilson4web

bwilson4web

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WARNING! WARNING!
tenor.gif


Source: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/hydrogen-boom-track-hit-11-000000053.html

Editor OilPrice.com, Oilprice.com September 29, 2020
...
Bank of America is the latest analyst to chime in with a bullish note.

According to the giant investment bank, hydrogen could supply our vast energy needs, fuel our cars, heat our homes, and also help to fight climate change.
...
Morgan Stanley has upgraded Plug Power Inc. (NASDAQ:pLUG) from Equal Weight to Overweight with a $14 price target after the leading fuel cell maker impressed during its investor day presentation. Morgan Stanley's Stephen Byrd believes green hydrogen will become economically viable quicker than investors appreciate saying Plug Power's deal with Apex Clean Energy to develop a green hydrogen network using wind power offers a chance to tap into "very low cost" renewable power and helps accelerate the shift to clean energy. Plug has a goal for over 50% of its hydrogen supplies to be generated from renewable resources by 2024.
...​

So now we know where Trevor Milton has wander off to. Seriously, this is nonsense.

Bob Wilson
 
bwilson4web said:
WARNING! WARNING!
tenor.gif


Source: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/hydrogen-boom-track-hit-11-000000053.html

Editor OilPrice.com, Oilprice.com September 29, 2020
...
Bank of America is the latest analyst to chime in with a bullish note.

According to the giant investment bank, hydrogen could supply our vast energy needs, fuel our cars, heat our homes, and also help to fight climate change.
...
Morgan Stanley has upgraded Plug Power Inc. (NASDAQ:pLUG) from Equal Weight to Overweight with a $14 price target after the leading fuel cell maker impressed during its investor day presentation. Morgan Stanley's Stephen Byrd believes green hydrogen will become economically viable quicker than investors appreciate saying Plug Power's deal with Apex Clean Energy to develop a green hydrogen network using wind power offers a chance to tap into "very low cost" renewable power and helps accelerate the shift to clean energy. Plug has a goal for over 50% of its hydrogen supplies to be generated from renewable resources by 2024.
...​

So now we know where Trevor Milton has wander off to. Seriously, this is nonsense.

Bob Wilson
Click to expand...
How is this a scam? Plug power is actually doing things. They have projects that they have delivered on and have projects in the pipeline.
 
So, bwislon4web, how do you suggest to replace everything that presently uses large diesel engines? Run ships on Lithium batteries?
 
Hydrogen isn't the answer for ships. It's energy density is worse than batteries at approx 160w/kg when using steel storage containers.
 
The more I learn about Hydrogen the more sense it makes for large transport vehicles that require a lot of energy to move. Turns out Hydrogen energy is 130X more dense to store than batteries. IE of 1kg of hydrogen is equal 130 kgs of battery stored energy.
https://anonw.com/2019/05/09/how-much-energy-can-extracted-from-a-kilogram-of-hydrogen/
And you can store vast quantities of hydrogen energy in bulk containers that can't even be imagined by battery storage today. And at negligent cost to the environment compared to electric battery production.
https://energystorage.org/why-energy-storage/technologies/hydrogen-energy-storage/
It could also be used as temporary storage of energy produced by inconsistent renewables such as solar and wind.

And remember that hydrogen can be produced very cleanly by 100% renewables.
 
world citizen said:
Exactly, R P! Makes me wonder what planet the antis are from?
Recoil45 wants to keep burning Diesel for another 50 years, wtf?.
Click to expand...

Want?

No, but you aren’t getting getting rid of any soon and it likely will be around a lot longer for certain applications. Not an anti, just being realistic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
R P said:
The more I learn about Hydrogen the more sense it makes for large transport vehicles that require a lot of energy to move. Turns out Hydrogen energy is 130X more dense to store than batteries. IE of 1kg of hydrogen is equal 130 kgs of battery stored energy.
https://anonw.com/2019/05/09/how-much-energy-can-extracted-from-a-kilogram-of-hydrogen/
And you can store vast quantities of hydrogen energy in bulk containers that can't even be imagined by battery storage today. And at negligent cost to the environment compared to electric battery production.
https://energystorage.org/why-energy-storage/technologies/hydrogen-energy-storage/
It could also be used as temporary storage of energy produced by inconsistent renewables such as solar and wind.

And remember that hydrogen can be produced very cleanly by 100% renewables.
Click to expand...
Hydrogen has better potential for being seasonal storage. Maybe even decadal storage too. Many of the storage tanks I see have very low leakage rates.
 
> "Another advantage is hydrogen’s energy density. Diesel has an energy density of 45.5 megajoules per kilogram (MJ/kg), slightly lower than gasoline, which has an energy density of 45.8 MJ/kg. By contrast, hydrogen has an energy density of approximately 120 MJ/kg, almost three times more than diesel or gasoline. In electrical terms, the energy density of hydrogen is equal to 33.6 kWh of usable energy per kg, versus diesel which only holds about 12–14 kWh per kg. What this really means is that 1 kg of hydrogen, used in a fuel cell to power an electric motor, contains approximately the same energy as a gallon of diesel. "
https://rmi.org/run-on-less-with-hydrogen-fuel-cells/

Even Rocky Mountain Institute agrees with this. They're all experts right? lol
 
Yes, Platinum is a Catalyst in all sorts of reactions, particularly in green Hydrogen generation and in fuel cells, as well as a Jewellery metal. It's particularly cheap at the moment. There is far less of it around than Gold and mining is limited.
You could get an allocted or unallocated account with a bullion dealer and they hold the metals for you in their stock.
I bought Palladium, (auto Catalytic converters) in 2008 and it went up about twelvefold, allowing me earlier retirement.

You can check things out for yourself here: https://www.bullionbypost.eu
 
Last edited:
People don't realize you can't store hydrogen in a balloon. There's a significant (80x) weight penality for storing it long term.

Cross posting from the other thread.

gooki said:
Are the Royal Society of Chemistry and Stanford University good enough sources?

https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlehtml/2015/ee/c4ee04041d



To convert that to kwh we will use.

https://rmi.org/run-on-less-with-hydrogen-fuel-cells/



33.6 x 0.72 = 24.192 kwh.

However to convert hydrogen to electricity we have to run it through a fuel cell which is 40 - 60% efficient. We'll go with 60% efficient for best case scenario.

24.192 x 0.60 = 14.5 kwh.

Now let's calculate the energy density
14.5 kwh / 58.72 kg = 247 Wh/kg

Lithium ion phosphate battery energy density 160 Wh/kg.

Panasonic NMC 2170 cells made for Tesla are 266 Wh/kg.

Next argument please.
Click to expand...

Assuming 40% efficient fuel cell and hydrogens real energy density can be as low as 165 Wh/kg.

With the maths above and the fact hydrogen generation takes 3x the energy input, does anyone believe it'll be cheaper than batteries?
 
gooki said:
People don't realize you can't store hydrogen in a balloon. There's a significant (80x) weight penality for storing it long term.

Cross posting from the other thread.



Assuming 40% efficient fuel cell and hydrogens real energy density can be as low as 165 Wh/kg.

With the maths above and the fact hydrogen generation takes 3x the energy input, does anyone believe it'll be cheaper than batteries?
Click to expand...

Do do believe just one source can supply/store all the energy the world requires?

I don’t. In fact, I bet fossil fuels continue to provide greater than 50% of our energy requirements for the life of anyone old enough to read this post.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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