Gas stations... Install DC EV charger or pay $10K annual fee

electriceddy

electriceddy

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City of Vancouver considering just that, including parking lots and parkades.
The fee would be part of the company’s annual business license, which is currently set at $163 or $263 for parking lots and gas stations respectively.
For gas stations to avoid the new fee, property owners would have to install at least one DC fast charger with a minimum charging speed of 50kW by 2025.

Parking lots and parkades would only need to install four Level 2 chargers.
The report estimates it will cost about $135,000 to install a DC fast charger, and about $100,000 for the Level 2 installation.

The proposal will go before council on April 12 and is being considered as a way to help the city reach its climate emergency action plan to cut emissions to 50% of 2007 levels and have zero-emission vehicles make up 50% of all kilometers driven on Vancouver streets by 2030.:)
Source:
https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/ci...d-parking-lots-that-dont-install-ev-chargers/
 
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electriceddy said:
City of Vancouver considering just that, including parking lots and parkades.
The fee would be part of the company’s annual business license, which is currently set at $163 or $263 for parking lots and gas stations respectively.
For gas stations to avoid the new fee, property owners would have to install at least one DC fast charger with a minimum charging speed of 50kW by 2025.

Parking lots and parkades would only need to install four Level 2 chargers.
The report estimates it will cost about $135,000 to install a DC fast charger, and about $100,000 for the Level 2 installation.

The proposal will go before council on April 12 and is being considered as a way to help the city reach its climate emergency action plan to cut emissions to 50% of 2007 levels and have zero-emission vehicles make up 50% of all kilometers driven on Vancouver streets by 2030.:)
Source:
https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/ci...d-parking-lots-that-dont-install-ev-chargers/
Click to expand...
Who knew that Vancouver, WA, USA was that progressive! The better approach would probably to rip out the gas station and parking lots and build more apartments with level 2 charging.

BC Hydro demand charges (Large General Service rate) is $12.34/kW of peak demand in any 15 minute interval (3 consecutive sets of 5 min). So a single 50kW DC fast charger could be $617 if one person charges for 15 minutes during the billing period only. If DC fast charging is $0.27/min, it would take 38 hours of charging revenue just to cover the demand charges for the billing period. You're still almost better off paying $10,000/year in penalties than $7,404 in demand charges and $135,000 to install a DC Fast charger. So just build more high rise condos and apartments.
 
electriceddy said:
City of Vancouver considering just that, including parking lots and parkades.
The fee would be part of the company’s annual business license, which is currently set at $163 or $263 for parking lots and gas stations respectively.
For gas stations to avoid the new fee, property owners would have to install at least one DC fast charger with a minimum charging speed of 50kW by 2025.

Parking lots and parkades would only need to install four Level 2 chargers.
The report estimates it will cost about $135,000 to install a DC fast charger, and about $100,000 for the Level 2 installation.

The proposal will go before council on April 12 and is being considered as a way to help the city reach its climate emergency action plan to cut emissions to 50% of 2007 levels and have zero-emission vehicles make up 50% of all kilometers driven on Vancouver streets by 2030.:)
Source:
https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/ci...d-parking-lots-that-dont-install-ev-chargers/
Click to expand...
This is the same council whose so-called "Climate Emergency Parking Program" would've required overnight parking permits on all residential streets across the city between midnight and 7 a.m. https://bc.ctvnews.ca/parking-in-va...narrowly-rejects-controversial-plan-1.5613367. Meanwhile they haven't installed Level 2 charging at most of their own community centres. The one dependable thing about the Vancouver City Council is that they will have you involuntarily swearing about their environmental plans. Remember the Greenest City 2020 Action Plan? No so green even in 2022.
 
teslarati97 said:
Who knew that Vancouver, WA, USA was that progressive! The better approach would probably to rip out the gas station and parking lots and build more apartments with level 2 charging.

BC Hydro demand charges (Large General Service rate) is $12.34/kW of peak demand in any 15 minute interval (3 consecutive sets of 5 min). So a single 50kW DC fast charger could be $617 if one person charges for 15 minutes during the billing period only. If DC fast charging is $0.27/min, it would take 38 hours of charging revenue just to cover the demand charges for the billing period. You're still almost better off paying $10,000/year in penalties than $7,404 in demand charges and $135,000 to install a DC Fast charger. So just build more high rise condos and apartments.
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The demand charge rate is a power rate and not energy. So maybe the $617 is just a monthly delivery charge, which makes more sense.

I suspect you will also see a kWh rate for the energy used and a monthly customer service charge.
 
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I just check my local utility and the rates for general service are:

Energy .050707 per kWh; Delivery, All kilowatts of billing Demand delivered at $8.64 per kW. per month; Customer charge $81.20 per month.

So the $617 seems like a monthly delivery charge to me.
 
marshall said:
I just check my local utility and the rates for general service are:

Energy .050707 per kWh; Delivery, All kilowatts of billing Demand delivered at $8.64 per kW. per month; Customer charge $81.20 per month.

So the $617 seems like a monthly delivery charge to me.
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It's per kW for peak demand: https://app.bchydro.com/accounts-billing/rates-energy-use/electricity-rates/business-rates.html

Getting the Medium General Service rate (35-150kW or <550,000kWh/year) would reduce it to 5.41/kW instead of the Large General Service Rate. It doesn't matter if you continually reach the peak demand daily or just once in a billing period. You will still pay the peak demand charge.

The point is once EVs take off, the utility companies will probably implement a peak demand charge on residential customers and eat into the "electric vs. petrol/diesel savings". That is how governments will tax electricity if they haven't already and I fully support a peak demand charge of $50-$100/mo on residential consumers.
 
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teslarati97 said:
Getting the Medium General Service rate (35-150kW or <550,000kWh/year) would reduce it to 5.41/kW instead of the Large General Service Rate. It doesn't matter if you continually reach the peak demand daily or just once in a billing period. You will still pay the peak demand charge.
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Again, this is the peak power demand charge and not energy used. So it is not an hourly charge.

If the peak power meter reads 50kW, you pay BC Hydro $617 for that month. A 50kW charger should have a peak power of around 50kW. Note, my utility calls it a delivery charge.

See this for an explanation of demand charges. https://watchwire.ai/electricity-demand-charges/

So your service station will pay $617 a month for the 50kW peak power charge, a charge for the energy used, and a customer charge if billed separately.
 
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marshall said:
Again, this is the peak power demand charge and not energy used. So it is not an hourly charge.

If the peak power meter reads 50kW, you pay BC Hydro $617 for that month. A 50kW charger should have a peak power of around 50kW.

See this for an explanation of demand charges. https://watchwire.ai/electricity-demand-charges/

So your service station will pay $617 a month for the 50kW peak power charge, a charge for the energy used, and a customer charge if billed separately.
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Now we're back to the original conundrum for owner with the land title:
A. Pay $10,000/year in property tax penalties
B. Spend $135,000 for 1 50kW DC fast charger and $7,404 in demand charges (assuming 50kW peak at $12.34/kW) annually OR
C. Demolish the gas station/parking lot and build a high rise apartment or condo

The customer charge was just a rough break-even calculation for demand charges.
 
Got it. The local utility here offers a EV charger rate for 25 locations. So maybe BC hydro will offer a EV charger rate at some point.

Anyhow, I'm not sure why they would want to put these chargers at service stations unless there was a fast food restaurant attached.

Frankly, it would make more sense to charge EV owners a $5 to $10 year fee over the next 10 years to build out the charging network . I don't see why service stations should be on the hook for the cost.
 
If this passes, doesn't this provide an incentive for them to team up with someone like EVgo? They provide the land, and EVgo provides the charging network.

However, BC hydo needs to lower their price if there is going to be much of a build-out.
 
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marshall said:
If this passes, doesn't this provide an incentive for them to team up with someone like EVgo? They provide the land, and EVgo provides the charging network.
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There are some options such as being a Tesla destination charger host or through Federal grants, but the real issue will be having more friendly EV charging rates per kWh and less cost prohibitive peak demand charges for commercial rates.

You can read the 2017 RMI report for EVgo Fleet & Tariff Analysis (DC Fast Charging & Demand Charges): https://rmi.org/press-release/press...rate-structures-support-fast-charging-growth/
 
electriceddy said:
City of Vancouver considering just that, including parking lots and parkades.
The fee would be part of the company’s annual business license, which is currently set at $163 or $263 for parking lots and gas stations respectively.
For gas stations to avoid the new fee, property owners would have to install at least one DC fast charger with a minimum charging speed of 50kW by 2025.

Parking lots and parkades would only need to install four Level 2 chargers.
The report estimates it will cost about $135,000 to install a DC fast charger, and about $100,000 for the Level 2 installation.

The proposal will go before council on April 12 and is being considered as a way to help the city reach its climate emergency action plan to cut emissions to 50% of 2007 levels and have zero-emission vehicles make up 50% of all kilometers driven on Vancouver streets by 2030.:)
Source:
https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/ci...d-parking-lots-that-dont-install-ev-chargers/
Click to expand...
Proposal approved on Thursday May 19/2022, must comply by January 2025

"At a meeting on Thursday Vancouver city council approved a new $10,000 annual fee for all gas stations and commercial parking lots that don’t install electric vehicle (EV) chargers by January 2025.

In order to comply with the new rule, gas stations will have to install at least one DC fast charger with a minimum charging speed of 50kW.

Parking lots and parkades would only need to install four Level 2 chargers in order to meet the guidelines.

If they don’t, it could turn in to a lucrative new cash flow for the city. There are currently 66 gas stations and 366 commercial parking lots across Vancouver that would fall under the new rule, according to the city.";)
Source:
https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/vancouver-annual-fee-gas-stations-parking-lots-ev-chargers/
 
Paying $10,000/year is the cheapest option for the owners which surely the COV understands considering their own lack of charging stations on their own properties. It's a money grab with zero environmental credentials which has been their playbook for years.
 
The better option for surface parking lots is to subdivide into lots of 59 parking stalls to be exempt from the bylaw entirely.

Gas stations should install a duo 25kW fast charger (50kW total) to maximize the $/min rate and large parking stalls should also consider 5 paired EVSEs (6kW single car, 3kW split for 2 EVs). That should help reduce the upfront capital costs to installing chargers and I don't believe there were any stipulations about providing free charging.

Councillor Carr had to purchase a hybrid instead of a BEV because her condo corporation said she had to pay $30,000 for Level 2 charging.
 
teslarati97 said:
Councillor Carr had to purchase a hybrid instead of a BEV because her condo corporation said she had to pay $30,000 for Level 2 charging.
Click to expand...

Maybe Councillor Carr should have the city install more charging stations. I don't have much sympathy for her as I went to city and BC Hydro charging stations for 5+ years because my previous condo building didn't allow charging.
 
DJP said:
Maybe Councillor Carr should have the city install more charging stations. I don't have much sympathy for her as I went to city and BC Hydro charging stations for 5+ years because my previous condo building didn't allow charging.
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I mean you could Level 2 charge at the office. Is DC Fast charging on a weekly basis not feasible with a 300 mile range? There's even 2 CCS 50kW DC fast chargers right outside Vancouver city hall.
 
teslarati97 said:
I mean you could Level 2 charge at the office. Is DC Fast charging on a weekly basis not feasible with a 300 mile range? There's even 2 CCS 50kW DC fast chargers right outside Vancouver city hall.
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I charged a lot there with my Kona in the last year, because it was free. And certainly with my car, it didn't matter whether 150kW was the max.
 
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