EV Range Impact of Winter (or All Season) Tires
- Thread starter Gearhead
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KentuckyKen
Well-Known Member
I’ll start the first data point on the inevitable sad downward spiral of cold weather and/or heat/defrost usage.
I’ve gone from consistent 63 to 64 miles EV range with temps in the 70s to 90s (using AC) to 57 to 58 with temps in the 50s day to high 40s night (no heat/defrost yet). So just a moderate reduction in temperatures cost me 5 miles of EV range.
I’ve also documented that rainy weather (water on road and on car) will reduce my EV by 2-3 miles. Snow will be even worse for road friction, weight, and aerodynamics. So add snow to the temp and it’s gonna go down even more. I’m glad I only live as far North as Kentucky.
I shudder (bad pun alert) to think what below freezing temps and heat use will do. I think I’ve been spoiled.
Notes: Charge in garage, and plan to precondition to reduce heat usage and subsequent drain. I drive moderately (no teenage jackrabbit starts and stops but no rabid hypermiling either) with no passengers or cargo and in mixed city/hwy under 60 mph. And I check the tire pressure every 1 to 2 months, especially as temps go down. I’ll
Add that my actual EV range is usually 3-4 miles less than the estimate, but I’ve never run it all the way to 0.
Thanks for starting this thread. It will be invaluable to have everyone’s winter range data all in one place. I’m hoping my EV range wil average out to match or beat the EPA 47 miles, since that’s what I based my ROI calculations on.
“Oh the weather outside is frightening..
Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow”
PS: As people report their ranges, I think we should be careful not to let any HV or ICE turn ons skew any MPGe or range or miles driven data.
I’ve gone from consistent 63 to 64 miles EV range with temps in the 70s to 90s (using AC) to 57 to 58 with temps in the 50s day to high 40s night (no heat/defrost yet). So just a moderate reduction in temperatures cost me 5 miles of EV range.
I’ve also documented that rainy weather (water on road and on car) will reduce my EV by 2-3 miles. Snow will be even worse for road friction, weight, and aerodynamics. So add snow to the temp and it’s gonna go down even more. I’m glad I only live as far North as Kentucky.
I shudder (bad pun alert) to think what below freezing temps and heat use will do. I think I’ve been spoiled.
Notes: Charge in garage, and plan to precondition to reduce heat usage and subsequent drain. I drive moderately (no teenage jackrabbit starts and stops but no rabid hypermiling either) with no passengers or cargo and in mixed city/hwy under 60 mph. And I check the tire pressure every 1 to 2 months, especially as temps go down. I’ll
Add that my actual EV range is usually 3-4 miles less than the estimate, but I’ve never run it all the way to 0.
Thanks for starting this thread. It will be invaluable to have everyone’s winter range data all in one place. I’m hoping my EV range wil average out to match or beat the EPA 47 miles, since that’s what I based my ROI calculations on.
“Oh the weather outside is frightening..
Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow”
PS: As people report their ranges, I think we should be careful not to let any HV or ICE turn ons skew any MPGe or range or miles driven data.
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PHEV Newbie
Well-Known Member
A few manufacturers have introduced "all-weather" tires where they do nearly as well as winter tires in the snow but do not sacrifice handling and fuel economy compared to A/S tires when warm. Michelin just introduced a version top rated by consumer reports. They're expensive but will pay off in a short time from savings of not having to swap tires twice a year. Unfortunately, they don't make them in the Clarity's size the last time I checked.
I would expect 10-15% hit from winter tires at least, but cold will bring an additional 20-50% so might mask loss from tires. If your winter range is 25 to 35 miles electric, your tires might take 3 or 4 miles.
We have just been using the Clarity's all seasons and they do okay, not great in snow, but not bad. However, we're only year one. We will see how they do year two soon, tread gets worse with wear.
My personal opinion is if you are in a snowy climate this tradeoff is almost always worthwhile. Vehicles are so much safer with proper tires.
We have just been using the Clarity's all seasons and they do okay, not great in snow, but not bad. However, we're only year one. We will see how they do year two soon, tread gets worse with wear.
My personal opinion is if you are in a snowy climate this tradeoff is almost always worthwhile. Vehicles are so much safer with proper tires.
The Michelin Crossclimate is now available for the Clarity according to Tire Rack. Great solution so now I have to decide between dedicated winter wheel or year round A/S. For me EV range loss will be the main factor. I'd expect snows to be stickier than A/S with greater range loss but I'll see what some real experiences are before deciding. I probably have another 3 weeks before this question becomes critical.
KentuckyKen
Well-Known Member
To the best of my knowledge it only helps the Canadian model which has a battery heater. Outside of being able to precondition without loss of charge and EV range, I don’t know of any benefit. Anybody know of any benefits for the US model?
Robert_Alabama
Well-Known Member
I didn't realize only the Canadian model had a battery heater. As for US, the only thing I considered which might help is to charge as late as possible before driving (to heat the battery from charging). This would probably only help with Level 2 charging (again if it does significantly help). This is only a guess that it might help and you'd have to weight any TOU charging rates into the decision even if it does help. Driving agressively also may not have as big a hit in really cold weather as it should heat the battery some... I live in Alabama, so I am really reaching here as I haven't experienced any cold weather with the Clarity yet.
The Canadian Claritys also have a button to temporarily disable the "Acoustic Vehicle Alerting System." But Honda robs the Canadians of the Touring's power seats and the lid covering the rear-seat arm-rest cup holders. The Canadian Clarity color choices are more limited, too. Honda giveth, Honda taketh away.
V8Power
Active Member
and we Canucks also get a HV battery heater so in the depths of Canadian winter, HAL can automatically warm our battery so we can keep driving.
Vezz66
Member
I’ve had my winter tires on for 2 weeks, but there are too many variables to take into account to know what the impact is.
Temperature has been dropping, I had the HV fix applied, and daily usage is different from summer.
Also, I need to check this, but at the A1 service they put 34psi on the inspection sheet, but I had set them to 36. Should I bring it back to 36 or did they adjust it for the 17” wheel size?
EV range est is now 35, was 40 2 weeks ago and 56 in July
Temperature has been dropping, I had the HV fix applied, and daily usage is different from summer.
Also, I need to check this, but at the A1 service they put 34psi on the inspection sheet, but I had set them to 36. Should I bring it back to 36 or did they adjust it for the 17” wheel size?
EV range est is now 35, was 40 2 weeks ago and 56 in July
Sandroad
Well-Known Member
In the summer with ambient temps in the 70s/80s and with the OEM tires, I averaged 65 miles of EV range on a full charge.
In the winter (actually late fall) with ambient temps in the 20s/30s and with X-Ice tires, I'm averaging 40 miles of EV range per charge.
In the middle of winter I expect the EV range to be half that of summer, or around 30. No problem; I expected that from my experience with other PHEV. I'm also a believer in being comfortable, so I keep the HVAC on 68F in the winter and use the seat heaters when it's real cold (and I use A/C in the summer). I don't yet have Level 2 charging available (but will soon), so I can't easily pre-condition.
For me, the EV range of the Clarity fits within my daily use all year; it's an incredible car for what it achieves all electric!
In the winter (actually late fall) with ambient temps in the 20s/30s and with X-Ice tires, I'm averaging 40 miles of EV range per charge.
In the middle of winter I expect the EV range to be half that of summer, or around 30. No problem; I expected that from my experience with other PHEV. I'm also a believer in being comfortable, so I keep the HVAC on 68F in the winter and use the seat heaters when it's real cold (and I use A/C in the summer). I don't yet have Level 2 charging available (but will soon), so I can't easily pre-condition.
For me, the EV range of the Clarity fits within my daily use all year; it's an incredible car for what it achieves all electric!
I agree with Vezz66. Too many variables to accurately determine the impact of snows on EV range.
I install my 215/55 R17 snows this weekend. I actually noticed a slight reduction in the rolling resistance with the 20 mm narrower snow tires probably due to the 8.5% reduction in the width of the 4 contact patches with the road. I did see an increase in road noise @ 100 kmph of about 3 to 5 dB over the OEM tires on the same road under similar conditions.
Not being a fan of the OEM wheels' design, I purchased the Clarity Accessory Wheels and put the original Michelin Energy Saver tires on those wheels for non-winter use. Before we took delivery of our Clarity last December, I had our dealer mount Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2 snow tires (same 235/45 R18 size as the Michelins) on the OEM wheels. This past weekend, I put the Hakkapeliittas back on our Clarity. I'm not sophisticated enough to assess the difference in EV range with these tires.
Even though the tires are nominally the same size, I noted that I had to raise the car a little after removing the Michelins to get the wheels with the Hakkapeliittas (I love typing that name!) mounted. So the diameter of the 18" Hakkapeliittas is a little greater than that of the 18" Michelins and owners putting 17" wheels and snow tires on their Claritys are likely not dramatically changing the final diameter of the tires.
These Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2s aren't quiet, but they're aggressively competent in the snow. I have smaller ones on my gen-1 Insight.
Even though the tires are nominally the same size, I noted that I had to raise the car a little after removing the Michelins to get the wheels with the Hakkapeliittas (I love typing that name!) mounted. So the diameter of the 18" Hakkapeliittas is a little greater than that of the 18" Michelins and owners putting 17" wheels and snow tires on their Claritys are likely not dramatically changing the final diameter of the tires.
These Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2s aren't quiet, but they're aggressively competent in the snow. I have smaller ones on my gen-1 Insight.
PHEV Newbie
Well-Known Member
Yes, winter tires make even the cheapest front wheel drive car more competent in the snow than the most expensive SUVs on A/S tires (and much, much better than the super expensive SUVs which are usually equipped with summer tires).
NeilBlanchard
Active Member
Nokian Hakka R's (current generation is R3) have very low rolling resistance. And Michelin X-Ice (also currently in their 3rd generation) are also excellent. So, you would see only a small change in range.