Est. Cybertruck vs 2020 Ford Raptor tug, tow, drag, race, hill & fording tests

[101101]

The totality of a group of tests can provide an irrefutable hard core smack down of ICE pick up BS and show it for the obsolete junk it is.

EQUIP
1. Physically show the equip out:

Cybertruck $77K (with FSD)
6 average weight people in cab, 30x 93lbs bags of cement in the bed, 116 bag of cement on a 3100lbs trailer

2020 Ford Raptor $76K (average properly equipped sale price)
5 average weight people in the cab, 10x 93lbs bags of cement in the bed, 53 x 93lbs bags of cement on a 3100lbs trailer.

TUG
2. Show Cybertruck pulling a fully loaded down 2020 Ford Raptor up a hill backwards in a tug test like its nothing. - Do another version of the test where Cybertruck does the same but with both trucks having their fully loaded out trailers in the middle- that would be the Cybertruck pulling about 37,044lbs plus fighting the full power of the Raptor up a hill backwards like its nothing. Electric power trains can do this- you have half of the raw motor capacity of what is in the Tesla semi in the Cybertruck and it can easily do that- granted the wiring and inverter and full battery pack to do it may not be there in full like in the Tesla Semi but the raw ingredients are. Might make sense to do the same with the biggest F350 or 450 as well if the traction can work out- if cybertruck can auto deflate tires for pull test maybe use that.

PULL
3. Show Cybertruck pulling (towing +payload) about 2x as much weight 3x faster than Raptor maximums 0-60mph- Show Raptor getting beat in that actual drag race. Cybertruck 0-60 in about 12 seconds or as quick as an unloaded 2013 Acura ILX hybrid might show that race two. 2020 Ford Raptor taking 36 seconds to go from 0-60 fully loaded down.

HILL
4. Show Raptor slowing down and heating up grape vine with its approx 1/2 weight max load out plus 1/2 max tow but show no slow down and no heat issue ever with Cybetruck with about double the tow plus double payload.

DRAG
5. Show both trucks unloaded in 0-60, 1/4 mile side by side drag tests (make sure Raptor fuel tank is full also do an empty tank test - same result)

FORDING
6. Show practically amphibious fording of Cybertruck vice Ford getting stuck in the mud.

RACE
7. Show the two race around Laguna Seca (Cyber truck will squat down low)- pretty sure Cyber Truck can beat the Electric Mustang GT at Laguna Seca show show that too.
Do a second version of the race with both trucks fully loaded down. Pay attention to the Raptors fuel, run it dry and full.

What I've done here is scaled based on what we know about the Tesla Semi vs Class 8 diesels which are admittedly more fluffy than EU trucks but certainly much less so that the Ford F series.

Remember the Ford Raptor and the Cybertruck have roughly the same vehicle weight and the same range (buy Cybertruck can refuel in desert with PV option) and Cybertruck has better off roading including stiffer structure, much higher ground clearance, much better angles exit and attack angles, obviously better break over angles, better smoother suspension (no live axel) and obviously better traction control and is obviously much cheaper to run and maintain and doesn't require trips to the gas station and of course has a lot more space to carry things including a bigger bed, flat armored bottom and a much more rugged exterior and is much easier to load.

EASE LOAD/UNLOAD
Show a side unloading test. Show ease of use of sail pillar. Then show as Cybertruck squatted all the way down and average height person easily reaching over to unload objects, show where the Ford's lack of a closing bed requires tool box intrusion and where that moves the unload point back in an already short bed. Show how easy the frunk and flat floor boards are to access and load and how easy the sub bed storage is to access. Show the equivalent lack of these features in the Raptor.

I saw a guy with an 5th wheel in Tesla style rendering. He pointed out that that having PV on the Cybetruck and covering he 5th wheel in it would me being out for weeks. I think it could mean having the transport paid for too. Presumably the huge surface on that 5th wheel could plus the Cybertruck vault could provide the up to 40 miles a day Musk estimated for the solar wings on the Cybertruck alone.

 

[craze1cars]

Range?

I tow cross country. Frequently. 600 miles one way is typical to get my boat or snowmobiles to my vacation destination 5 to 7 times per year. That trek takes 9 hours in a ICE pickup that gets 10 mpg on the interstate while towing my loads at 75 mph (same truck is rated 20 mpg EPA highway unloaded).

So how long will my 600 mile one way trip take in a battery powered truck under the same load of towing that halves the fuel mileage of my ICE truck?

That’s the only spec I care about: RANGE of a single battery charge while towing a load that drags an ICE down to 10 mpg. Then how long to recharge.

 

[101101]

Well that sounds sincere and real world. Here's my guess. I think it is possible that using this electric truck might add up to 2 hrs to your 18hrs 1200 mile trip. But on the plus side if the trip were all in CA you'd save $400 on gas and you wouldn't be slowing down on steep grades or be having to worry about overheating your engine or your brakes and you're going to have a lot higher reliability. And where you do recharge will be a lot nicer and generally a lot safer than a gas station.

And it is a Tesla, even now its auto pilot makes stop and go a breeze if you get caught in traffic and very likely the noise, vibration and harshness will be much better and ride will be smoother and you'll probably have a lot more room to stretch out especially if you bring other people with you and that's against even today's roomy super-cabs. Tesla has to put run flats on it- no way they wouldn't. So you'll feel comfy and safe and chill rolling down the road in that fortress with a million mile power train. You don't even wear out your brakes. Tesla seats which it makes itself are just recently said to be about the best there is and journalists who road in that truck said these were another level up. You also have the "bioweapon defense" filters if you get coal rolling in front of you and you don't want to want to recirc and you've got an awesome light package. Also got a trickle charger if you've got the PV option for camping which helps you keep the lights on or get back to a charger. And I also think electrics are better vehicles in cold climes, part of why they are so popular in the Nordic countries if you have to drive through deeper water generally no problem. Or if you drive through brush if you don't do a wrap it's a pretty though exterior. They have a flat rake windshield coming, maybe the supplementary laser cleaner will also be ready. And if you do end up having to stay overnight at hotel or motel what's in your bed will stay locked up.

 

[craze1cars]

Well...I’m nowhere near California...and most of that list you wrote is nowhere on my priority list for a truck...

I find your guess of adding only 2 hours exceedingly optimistic. I bet it would need to be charged every 100 miles minimum under a true and consistent interstate towing load. Maybe every 60 miles. I’d guess I would have to stop to charge 6 to 10 times or more. It takes a TON of energy to maintain interstate speeds even on flat land when a trailer throws all aerodynamic design elements of the vehicle right out the window and renders them useless...interstate towing of trailers much more energy than I believe you or most non-towers realize... thus the 10mpg true fuel mileage of every gasoline truck you see towing a substantial trailer down the interstate...

So I guess for quite a bit longer it’s ICE pickups for me!

And yes it’s absolutely sincere and real world. I’m a Honda Clarity owner. I like the concept of electric. If an electric truck ever meets my needs I will be an early adopter. It is clear to me that we area LONG ways from that day. That said I think a lot of your comments are a bit over the top sensationalist and one sided. For example your comments about worrying about overheating engines and brakes...I assure you these are full blown obsolete issues that no longer exist. I suspect you don’t tow much. Also you indicate electrics are better in colder climates...yet my Clarity loses nearly 50% of its electric range in cold climates vs warm...and towing range is my #1 priority.

I think it’s great that Tesla is coming out with electric truck, and Lordstown and others. But I see them as either local fleet vehicles, or as suburban haulers for people who don’t really use or need trucks. It is a niche that could use filling.

But as someone who actually uses his truck as a truck only...and leaves it parked for grocery getting and switches over to his PHEV Clarity when an admittedly wasteful vehicle is not needed, an electric truck absolutely won’t work for me...interesting nonetheless.

 

[interestedinEV]

It takes a TON of energy to maintain interstate speeds even on flat land when a trailer throws all aerodynamic design elements of the vehicle right out the window and renders them useless...interstate towing of trailers much more energy than I believe you or most non-towers realize... thus the 10mpg true fuel mileage of every gasoline truck you see towing a substantial trailer down the interstate...

This has been my concern with this vehicle. There are two major types of body design, the traditional body on frame (which is used in trucks) and unitized (Elon calls it exoskeleton) which is used in most passenger cars. The reason for trucks using the body on frame is to compensate for the aerodynamic effects of the trailer, to give it rigidity against twisting forces. Tesla has added extra thick shell instead of a rigid frame. I really wonder how it will work when it is subjected to towing trailers for long distances continuously. @101101 has poo-poohed my concerns away, but I still am not convinced. That is the real world test we need for the Cybertruck to take, being able work under tough conditions over an extended period of time, the real reason you need a truck. Not for the occasional trip to Home Depot.

 

[bwilson4web]

Having the load bearing metal as far to the outside makes a stronger, lighter structure than an embedded beam structure. For example, the strength of an I-beam is the ends, not the web.

Bob Wilson

 

[interestedinEV]

Having the load bearing metal as far to the outside makes a stronger, lighter structure than an embedded beam structure. For example, the strength of an I-beam is the ends, not the web.

Bob yes, and that is why most passenger cars use the shell as load bearing structure. However, where this does not do that well is in handling torsional forces, it handles latitudinal and longitudinal shearing forces well. That is the reason why you can hit the Cybertruck with a hammer and nothing happens, it can resist the shearing and bending loads. Will it handle repeated severe twisting loads? I don't know the answer and only actual usage condition testing will tell. In theory the design sounds perfect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-beam

An I-beam, also known as H-beam (for universal column, UC), w-beam (for "wide flange"), universal beam (UB), rolled steel joist (RSJ), or double-T (especially in Polish, Bulgarian, Spanish, Italian and German), is a beam with an I or H-shaped cross-section. The horizontal elements of the I are flanges, and the vertical element is the "web". I-beams are usually made of structural steel and are used in construction and civil engineering.

The web resists shear forces, while the flanges resist most of the bending moment experienced by the beam. The Euler-Bernoulli beam equation shows that the I-shaped section is a very efficient form for carrying both bending and shear loads in the plane of the web. On the other hand, the cross-section has a reduced capacity in the transverse direction, and is also inefficient in carrying torsion, for which hollow structural sections are often preferred.

 

[101101]

No, none of that applies, if anything I may have been too conservative. Especially in the cold. And I don't take Clarity seriously when they flubbed the back on purpose to protect their ICE and do a compliance vehicle. But I did love an old Honda Accord very much- more reliable seriously broken than my American vehicles were in close to new state.

You're arguing points that were lost half a century ago. What counted for an engine and a transmission on locomotives was replaced decades ago by electric traction motors because electric motors are more powerful, much more efficient and much more reliable with much less maintenance and cheap/easy to fix because modular and simple. And all that applies under huge loads. That only gets better when you replace the diesel generator stack with batteries (solid state, much more efficient and flexible and much lower maintenance.) Same thing with dump trucks and military tanks.

But let us argue backwards on range from things we already know. Tesla has a Semi which will pull a full class 8 load with much better characteristics on accelerating and overheating and slowing down on hills than current state of the art Class 8 diesels which do have to pull over because they get hot on hills and do slow down to 45mph because they can't handle hills and do have to jake brake with the engine to save their brakes. None of that with the Tesla Semi- and it goes 500-600 miles on a charge under full class 8 80klbs load. It will apparently do a lot better than that on range/efficiency if you convoy them. Its about the price of a Class 8 but less than half he per mile cost- rail is probably 1/4 the cost. It charges with something called a mega charger. I am guessing that is 4 x 250kwh plugs tied together so that it can put a megawatt into the battery in an hour. It charges that Semi to full in 1/2 hour. That implies that the Semi only has 500kwh of batteries or about 2.5x what I am guessing is in the top Cybertruck. Cybertruck has 250kwh+, where the "+" is interesting.

The Semi's powertrain will have to haul an average when fully loaded including the tractor itself a little over 4x (my guess) as much as Cybetruck is capable of with weight of Cybertruck + full payload + full tow-load but the semi also has a higher CD and much higher frontal cross sectional area and much greater rolling resistance. On the other hand the Cybertruck with its much lower weight and a lot less air to displace and drag (even with a trailer or aero camper) and lower rolling resistance has more than 3/4 the raw mechanical motor power(2 tesla semi motors and 1 bigger motor) and about 2/5 the battery (my guess) but a charge rate 1/4+ But again even at max payload and tow it won't even reach 1/4 the total weight and the force of the air it has to drag and displace will always be less and rolling resistance will be a lot less.

So all things considered the Cybertruck seems to scale down well against the semi, it has about the same range but it only has to pull less than 1/4 in weight and drag/cross-section (even with trailer) is much less and the rolling resistance is much less and it has 1/4+ the charge rate, but is has more than 3/4 the mechanical motor capacity but only 2/5th the battery and surely falls short on inverter and wiring capacity. But looked at this way maybe it is only charging for 45 minutes every 400 miles under-load because after all the Semi is pulling 80,000 lbs (100klbs total including truck) and is only charging for 30min every 500 miles but of course the semi has 4 motors which is presumably more efficient. If the Semi were covered in PV might have to charge a good bit less than that especially if coupled with convoy. Convoy range already must exceed the far end of ICE Class 8 range if its efficiency beats even rail- cost per mile might drop to 1/5 class 8 under load or better. But re-considered maybe you only have to add 1.5hrs to your 18hrs journey in return for a huge savings on fuel- less than half even outside of CA (CA is where a greater fraction of the true cost of obsolete gas is reflected.) Guessing you could hyper mile a Cybertruck for 1000miles or more.

Therapy for you might be to watch as many Tesla motor teardowns as possible- especially of the Model 3 motor. Not the batteries so much but the actual motor full tear downs. There you see quality and ruggedness not that sprawl of vibrating trinkets itching to wear out that litter a ICE truck motor. Maybe watch the tear down of a locomotive traction truck as well. So no if anything I was too conservative on range under load. Range under load may beat the farthest range ICE pick-up trucks. You know that ICE truck with the ridiculous 750miles gas tank that gets cut in half under load to 350 miles. Maybe not because it is not the case with the Semi. One great thing with the semi is they should be able to charge up where ever they are stored.

But you also seem to be missing something about electrics. The theoretical charge density on lithium ion battery (solid state) has massive room to improve and it is doing so at a great rate, its limit is a good increment greater than the energy density of gasoline. For something like the Model 3 apparently in theory the 1054lbs battery pack weight could be reduced to 11lbs. Makes it seem like you could then scale the range up to 29,370 miles per charge at 6hrs 40min on a mega charger and solid state apparently has a pretty slow rate of charge loss. We are far away from that but the range will soon far exceed the range of ICE vehicle under any circumstance and the pricing already does and so does the convenience. The distances between electric and gas is greater than the distance between transistors and vacuum tubes.

So again if 12kwh per kg in gas its 15kwh or so per kg in lithium as the theoretical limit. It would be like the model 3 was carrying around 600kg or 1322lbs of gas or 157 gallons of gas on a full charge and at its new rate it really goes about 201 miles on a gallon of gas worth of energy or about 31,557 miles if the lithium battery tech were at its theoretical limit. That is 330 miles on a 75kwh pack or 330 miles on 1.64 gallons of gas or about 201 miles per gallon- eMPG is greatly understated because Model 3 really does get that on 75kwh or so. I hope you're starting to see that is 10x the efficiency of the average ICE car and that is due to the power train and if you have it carrying around the equivalent of 8x more fuel, you get an 80x increase. The theoretical energy density advantage of lithium is not only that has a higher weight to power density but a much higher power to volume density multiplied by a power train that is already 10x more efficient. Would only have to charge your car every few years.

 

[101101]

Opps wroite a bunch of mixed up just plain wrong stuff about power density.
Screwed up the above, gasoline has 2x the energy density of theoretical lithium and I multiplied by the wrong weights for gas and Model eMPG is accurate at 150 empg. Limit on lithium Model 3 range potential might be around 20454 miles if its cells are 242kwh kg. But condescending point still made. 20k miles in Lithium might be decades away but 1320 miles normal driving range in a Model 3 is less than a decade away at normal lithium improvement rates. 5280 on a single charge by 2040 and 20454 miles by 2050.

So charge every couple years then. But 660 miles per charge is less than 5 years away. But Model 3 is already a 10x crushing difference quality of experience over any ICE out there. Cybertruck does that to fluffy Pick-ups.