Are late model Leafs charging that slowly in hot temps?

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FloridaSun

FloridaSun

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I'm in Florida and it is very hot here, especially in summer.. So, I was charging my Kona at a 50kw charger that also has chademo. 2 cars beside me, a 2018 or 2019 Leaf pulled in and started charging.. After a few minutes of charging, I peeked over at his charger's display and I was shocked by the slow charging speed... It showed only 30 kwh on a charger capable if 49kwh speed.. Is this normal for Leafs in hot temperature or is there potentially another issue?
I was charging between 44kwh and 48.5kwh from 39 to 76%..
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Without knowing the temperature of the battery it's hard to say. I suspect it must have been already hot when plugged in. Any time I've had mine on a DCFC
with a 19% SOC it has charged at around 50kw.
 
Paul K said:
Without knowing the temperature of the battery it's hard to say. I suspect it must have been already hot when plugged in. Any time I've had mine on a DCFC
with a 19% SOC it has charged at around 50kw.
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Does the leaf display battery temperature or do you need software like leafspy to get it.. Didn't talk to the guy.. I just noticed the slow charging speed.. It also looks like his battery was pretty low when he pulled in. The location is right near the Interstate Highway, so he may have driven high speed before getting to the charger... All speculation though.. All I know is that he was charging at a slow speed and I wonder if this is common in a hot climate.. I was close getting a late model Leaf for the wife but we went with a BMW i3 instead..
 
BlueKonaEV said:
Does the leaf display battery temperature or do you need software like leafspy to get it.. Didn't talk to the guy.. I just noticed the slow charging speed.. It also looks like his battery was pretty low when he pulled in. The location is right near the Interstate Highway, so he may have driven high speed before getting to the charger... All speculation though.. All I know is that he was charging at a slow speed and I wonder if this is common in a hot climate.. I was close getting a late model Leaf for the wife but we went with a BMW i3 instead..
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The leaf displays battery temperature in a bar type format, which at least is better than Kona EV has to offer :(. The levels of each bar correspond to a certain degree differential and those can be found on the this major Leaf forum:
https://www.mynissanleaf.com
Both my previous Leafs (2013 and 2016) could achieve a 130 degree temperature without any effort while DC charging, but Nissan lowered that threshold by reducing the charge rate. It is probably a very wise decision to go with the i3 in your location.
https://insideevs.com/news/328944/bmw-and-lg-chem-trump-tesla-in-battery-thermal-management/
Leafspy will give you actual degree temperatures without having to convert the different bar levels.
 
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electriceddy said:
The leaf displays battery temperature in a bar type format, which at least is better than Kona EV has to offer :(. The levels of each bar correspond to a certain degree differential and those can be found on the this major Leaf forum:
https://www.mynissanleaf.com
Both my previous Leafs (2013 and 2016) could achieve a 130 degree temperature without any effort while DC charging, but Nissan lowered that threshold by reducing the charge rate. It is probably a very wise decision to go with the i3 in your location.
https://insideevs.com/news/328944/bmw-and-lg-chem-trump-tesla-in-battery-thermal-management/
Leafspy will give you actual degree temperatures without having to convert the different bar levels.
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The Kona definitely needs a battery temp display.. that's something that shouldn't be difficult to add with a software update..
So, it appears that throttling charge based on heat is something that happens with Nissan Leafs to protect the battery.. which makes sense as it has no active cooling.. So, it appears that the BMW i3 is probably a better choice for Florida indeed.. The cooling on the i3 even kicks in during Level 2 charging.. It seems to kick in at lower temperatures than the Kona cooling..
So far, our i3 has been flawless.. Sometimes, I can get INSANE efficiency in the i3, which even puts the Kona's great efficiency to shame.. I have gotten over 8 mi/kwh on some short slow speed trips without AC around town.. My best short trip with the Kona was 6.7 mi/kwh..
 
cmwade77 said:
There are the possibilities mentioned above, also the charging station itself could have been too hot to run at full speed.
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I was charging at an identical unit and I got 48.5kw.. The station he used was not used for at least 20 mins before he pulled in, so I doubt that it was still hot from a previous charge..
 
I really don't understand why Nissan did not add battery cooling considering the degradation issues with earlier models due to heat.. My neighbor has a 2015 Leaf with 60000 miles without Chademo and he still has close to the original range. I know other Leaf owners of 2015's with Chademo and similar mileage and they have significant degradation..
 
@KyleConner has a Nissan LEAF this week and he just reported similar on our podcast this morning. Besides having Electrify America issues, he reports that this brand now, SL Plus was only charging at 23 kW yesterday. Frustrating. The Nissan Ariya can't come soon enough.
 
If the battery was already hot (after a long drive on a hot day), it definitely can charge that slowly. This 2019 Leaf owner has been there, done that. It will charge rapidly in when the battery (or the day) is at a more moderate temp, but not if it gets too hot.
 
Calliope said:
If the battery was already hot (after a long drive on a hot day), it definitely can charge that slowly. This 2019 Leaf owner has been there, done that. It will charge rapidly in when the battery (or the day) is at a more moderate temp, but not if it gets too hot.
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So, you got to expect long charge times during a road trip in summer...
 
cmwade77 said:
Oddly my 2013 Leaf didn't suffer this issue, hopefully the Kona doesn't either....but I am literally about to find out.
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Konas have active battery cooling, so they don't have to slow down charging to prevent batteries from overheating..
 
BlueKonaEV said:
Konas have active battery cooling, so they don't have to slow down charging to prevent batteries from overheating..
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When charging in warmer weather, I hear the fans and pumps running under the hood to monitor battery temperature. Charging in cooler weather I hear no such sounds. This is even for L2 charging in the garage - I was tempted to start doing scheduled charging so I can charge at night or very early in the morning (not because we have a price differential, but because it is somewhat cooler at night).

Once I get my car back, I think I am going to have to monitor temperature and cell voltages on a more regular basis.
 
I just did an 80km one way run in hot temps yesterday and used up 40% of my battery capacity. Decided to use a Petro Canada DCFC to top up before returning as I would be facing a stiff head wind on the way back. SOC was 58% when I plugged in. Charging rate was 30kw when first plugged in but quickly dropped to 24kw
after a few minutes. Was down to about 21 when I unplugged 12 minutes later for a SOC of 74%. Curiously the battery temp indicator did not rise above the 6 bars it had when I plugged in. My 2018 Leaf S has the original "cautious" bms programming and I wonder if that's the culprit. Normally I see a higher charge rate.

I can see where the current design would come up short for making long trips in hot climates. This does not apply to my situation however. I have never brought the temp to over 8 bars on a DCFC. The GOM still indicates a range of over 290km on a full charge. It used to sometimes go a whisker over 300km when brand new. I've racked up 40,000km (26,000 miles) so far so good. I actually don't mind not having forced liquid cooling of the battery as it adds complexity, cost and possible future costly repair issues.

Just like Tesla owners who are willing to overlook defects because they like the cars, I like my Leaf as it is super comfortable when I do the odd long run and has been absolutely reliable which is a big plus in my book. Looking at possible replacement next year to something with a 60kwh pack. Not wedded to Nissan but not ruling out another Leaf if still in production.
 
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BlueKonaEV said:
So, you got to expect long charge times during a road trip in summer...
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Yes......long road trips were not a part of my life when I bought it 18 months ago, but things change ;)

I've never checked the displayed battery temperature - I'm not even sure where to look for it - but I can watch it with my LeafSpyPro.
 
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