Zero regen for max range?

Discussion in 'Hyundai Kona Electric' started by Kona in the Creek, May 7, 2019.

  1. Kona in the Creek

    Kona in the Creek New Member

    My wife and I are recent owners of a Kona Ultimate, and love the car. I have a question though about regeneration. Driving along at zero regen at a steady speed. click to level one, then level 2, then level three....and each advance in regen slows the car down, leaving the impression it takes more power to cruise along on the highway with regen on.

    This cannot be the case though, because the engineers would not default Eco mode to level 2 regen if doing so ate up range. Right?

    So, what I think is happening, is each level of regen varies the amount of power available to the motor, so advancing through the levels decreases total power available to the motor. Moving at the same speed will use a progressively higher level of the available power, although the actual power consumption to maintain speed does not change.

    Is this right, or is there a better explanation?
  2. popnfrresh

    popnfrresh Member

    Ive found when the regen is on, you need to use more power to overcome the regen. It doesnt seem to hurt range since while you are using more power, you are getting it back in regen at same time.

    That being said, I have found 0 regen is best for highway and use paddles to change if needed. I also use 0 regen while driving in suburban and coast until braking is needed and use paddles.

    Im getting between 5 and 5.3 miles per kwh. 330 - 350 miles range on a ~260 epa.
    Mattsburgh likes this.
  3. KonaTom

    KonaTom Active Member

    I’m starting to drive highways with zero and level one in town. I do set smart regen, and it is quite amazing.
    I seem to get better range but haven’t done detailed study. When you press the brake pedal, it uses regen until you press hard. I can see four bars of regen using brake pedal. When I approach cars, the smart regen activates, even if cars pull in front of me, then it reverts back to my set regen level. Going downhill the smart regen activates too. For new owners of evs, this may be a good setting, as it behaves much like an ICE
  4. Mattsburgh

    Mattsburgh Active Member

    Personally I think 0 regen is the best option for highway and even some city driving depending on how flat the roads are and how often you have to slow down or stop.

    I'm also starting to wonder if drive mode regen levels are slightly different. That is, I could swear the regen level 1 in sport mode doesn't feel as heavy and restricting as level 1 in Normal or Econ mode. But I haven't driven enough to decide for sure, maybe I'm just imagining it.
    KiwiME likes this.
  5. eastpole

    eastpole Member

    I think you all understand what's happening, but not everyone reading the thread later will. So, just to try to influence the language being used in this thread -- the regen level is not affecting available power, and certainly not the power required to cruise at a certain speed on the freeway.

    The only sane way to design this would be to have the regen level affect the profile [1]of the throttle. Any engineer would know that it doesn't make sense to have the generator using power from the wheels to feed the battery when your foot is steadily on the accelerator. (I hope the reason is obvious -- storage is never 100% efficient so this would be a net loss compared to just running the engine.) Regen kicks in when you back off the throttle position.

    Someone stop me if I'm not making sense here. :)

    [1] Profile means the way throttle position is mapped to a given motor output power.
    SkookumPete likes this.
  6. SkookumPete

    SkookumPete Well-Known Member

    Power and regen are not working against one another. There is a scale between full regen and full power, with freewheeling at the center. It helps to think of the accelerator, the paddles, auto regen, adaptive cruise control, and the brake pedal (up to a point) simply as instruments for modulating the system's position on this spectrum. When you press the accelerator, you aren't necessarily applying power; you may be reducing regen if the car is slowing or resisting downhill momentum, or you may be coasting. This can be verified by a glance at the power gauge.
    Last edited: May 7, 2019
    Canada Dan, eastpole and Vanryan like this.
  7. This is accurate, regen only activates when the accelerator is not being pressed down. If you have a delicate touch, even with the car set to full regen, you can let the accelerator rise up to a point where you will coast, no acceleration and no regen. This is my preference, set the car to full regen and manipulate the accelerator pedal to get less regen or no regen when I want.
    electriceddy likes this.
  8. SCC with full regen for me
    Canada Dan and XtsKonaTrooper like this.
  9. Kona in the Creek

    Kona in the Creek New Member

    We have a flat spot about two km long near our place where I tested the regen as mentioned in the opening post. Each step up in regen slowed the car a bit more, without moving the accelerator at all. That suggests I am doing more than making a selection for later when I take the foot off the accelerator. The slowing effect is immediate. Seems to me, if I am just making a selection of amount of regen I'd like to have later when I want to slow down....there would be no effect right now when holding my foot steady on the accelerator. Am I making sense?
  10. ClarityDoc

    ClarityDoc Active Member

    There is no zero regen, except when the accelerator is engaged (by pedal or cruise control). First tug on L paddle gives 2 chevrons. I seen to recall seeing this in the manual somewhere.

    No glide mode in the Clarity, by design.

    Sent using Inside EVs mobile app
  11. SkookumPete

    SkookumPete Well-Known Member

    The paddle and the accelerator are two inputs into the power setting, and their effect is additive. Say you are going down a regular slope. You find that you can maintain speed with level 2 regen modulated by a slight depression of the accelerator. If you then switch to level 1 without varying the throttle, you will speed up, and if you switch to level 3, you will slow down. It would be very odd if there were no effect until you lifted your foot completely.
    eastpole likes this.
  12. NeilBlanchard

    NeilBlanchard Active Member

    It it best to be able to coast (no regen) when you are moving forward. Regen is fine for when you want to slow down. And regen is integrated onto the brake pedal.

    You should see the best efficiency, if you leave the regen setting for the accelerator on its default. If you are going down a long steep slope, then you might want to use a setting that gives you some regen when you lift your right foot. But after you get back on flat(ter) ground, I would go back to the default setting.
  13. NeilBlanchard

    NeilBlanchard Active Member

    The Kona Electric has no regen on the accelerator, when you lift your foot off the pedal, in the default mode.
  14. SkookumPete

    SkookumPete Well-Known Member

    You are muddying the waters somewhat. You advise coasting (no regen) but then recommend the default setting which is not zero for any driving mode.

    In fact, I don't believe there is any practical difference between coasting at level 0, and slowly losing momentum with regen at 1-3 while applying some accelerator. Either way the power gauge shows a neutral state.
  15. Yes, the regen levels simply shift the point of zero power flow from no accelerator input to small increments. Shouldn't and doesn't seem to have any effect on driving power or pedal calibration at higher power levels. Clearly setting the paddles to zero regen will minimise inadvertent regenerative losses that occur as you press and relax your foot on and off the accelerator, to say nothing of the benefits of encouraging the driver to anticipate traffic to make the best use of coasting.

    Here's a graph of what the effect very roughly appears to be, noting that the horizontal axis has different meanings at each side.
  16. NeilBlanchard

    NeilBlanchard Active Member

    The Kona Electric coasts in default mode, when you lift your right foot off the accelerator, as I understand it. Coasting when you want to keep moving, and not having to feather the accelerator pedal to try to coast, means that you are predictably and consistently using less energy, and going farther.

    What tires does the Kona Electric have?
  17. SkookumPete

    SkookumPete Well-Known Member

    I'm unsure what you mean by default mode or why you are making such pronouncements about a car you apparently don't drive. As I stated above, every driving mode has a default regen level of >0.
    ajstjacques likes this.
  18. You program the default 1-3 (but not zero) regen you want for each of the three main driving modes. A speed limit can be set in ECO as well, an error in the manual.
  19. NeilBlanchard

    NeilBlanchard Active Member

    Well, that's disappointing. Ioniq coasts by default, and I think the Kia Niro does, as well. Can you manually put it at 0 when you want?
  20. Regen can be set at whatever you want, whenever you want by using the paddles, including overriding any default settings. Zero regen is coasting.

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