Second Service A01

This thread is almost 3 years old. Have we collected enough data to reach a conclusion yet?

I am driving almost exclusively on electric engine with the green button on. Got an A02 MM 3 months ago and have a few questions:

1. The oil dip pin shows the oil is very clean. Can I rely on that to not change oil?

2. Why is there no tire rotation requirement? My Odometer is at 11000 miles. Last time it was about 6000 miles / 1 year ago.

3. How to reset the MM myself? Will it cause warranty issue? Mine is 3 months overdue.

 

1) No. Almost every vehicle manufacturer recommends changing the oil at a certain mileage or 12 months, whichever comes first. You could take a sample and have a fluid analysis performed which may cost almost as much as an oil change, only to discover that the oil needs to be changed. The engine will not explode at 12 months and one day with the same oil. You might be able to leave the oil in for 2-3 years. When in HV, the engine does start and stop frequently and also revs up to what some consider alarming speeds, so even though it doesn’t run continuously, it may be hard on oil. Then there’s the 12 month issue.

2) Tire rotation is recommended at 7500 miles. If yours last popped up at 6000 miles the next one may not show until 13,500.

3) Read the manual.
3a) Possibly.

FWIW: I had my second oil change at ~15K miles, even though I’d only used 13.5 gallons of gas over the previous 12 months. I own the car and plan to keep it for many years. It is low cost, preventative maintenance.

 

My car is rarely in HV mode and I rarely let it run out of battery.

 

Ultimately, it is an individual decision whether or not to follow recommended maintenance intervals. It is your car after all.

 

The issue in my opinion is a personal choice. The manual says to change at least once per year or the reguired mileage. Full synthetic oil is used and therefore doesn't break down as fast. I have many years experience servicing heavy equipment and i am usually very strict. In my opinion i wouldn't drain out oil that looks new unless it has been more than one year since last oil change. Service professionals say oil can oxidize over time when the engine never runs. I run my engine once in awhile when on the freeway and let the oil come up to full operating temperature (about 15 minutes). This helps to keep the oil fresh. I also didn't change my engine airfilter because i inspected it and it looked new even though the dealer had said it was due. I have heard from at least one mechanic that he's never seen a problem caused by not changing full synthetic oil even when well over on miles.

 

There is an issue with some engines (The Honda CRV happens to be one of them) where gas gets into the oil.

This is referred to as "Oil Dilution".

Honda acknowledges this, and has no "fix", but rather some workarounds related to transmission and engine software changes associated with warm-up, etc... Apparently this problem is exacerbated by short engine runs where there is not time for an adequate warm-up period.

The CRV engine is also a 1.5L like the Clarity.

I am not saying that the Clarity has this problem, but it is a good example of how engine oil can become 'contaminated' well before it will degrade under more normal conditions.

Oil is not expensive, and many (most?) of us can claim that we put very few miles on the ICE during the course of a year. In spite of this, I feel there is good reason to go by Honda's (and other manufacturers) recommendations to change the oil at least once a year (or beyond a certain number of miles) whichever comes first.

In my experience (low ICE miles), the maintenance minder does seem to trigger on 1 year intervals (2 times since my purchase so far). So being consistent with the 1 year recommendation, that's what I have been doing.

 

That said, i don't reccomend going over on miles or pass the one year interval wich ever comes first. In reality there's probably a little wiggle room on miles and time.

 

I have had my 2018 Clarity PHEV since March 2019 and have observed the maintenance notices the car flashes at me seem to be related to the calendar rather than mileage. I use very little gas and due to COVD, my mileage just hit 10,000 miles. I’d guess my miles are about 90%+ EV. As a sidenote, my husband changes the oil every year “whether ot needs it or not,” reasoning that oil is still cheaper than engines.

 

I'd really like for someone to send their oil off to the lab. I've done this on previous vehicles, but I just bought my clarity used and the oil was just changed, so it definitely would not show anything. If one of you does your own oil changes, please please consider sending a sample of your used oil off for testing. They'll return a complete analysis and even give you recommendations on how much longer you can go in the future before changing. The analysis shows all of the various wear indicators and oil breakdown indicators that they can find. https://www.blackstone-labs.com/

EDIT: Boy, I should have read more of the thread before posting this! I didn't realize the thread was so old and people have already suggested and done this. Ha-- sorry!

 

I just had an oil change today and the CSR confirmed it is 100% based on time and not mileage. He said because it says “days overdue” instead of “miles overdue” it shows how the car calculates.

 

I’m going to go out on a limb here and declare your CSR?, Technical Service Advisor maybe?, a certified moron.

Let’s say you drive 7500 miles in a month. Is the MM likely to indicate an oil change is due? Yes. Why? Because you drove 7500 miles. If you ignore the MM for 4 days, it will tell you that you are 4 days past due. Why? Because 4 days ago, you hit 7500 miles since the last oil change.

The same thing would happen if you drove 7500 miles in 3 months, 6 months or 12 months. When’s a service is due, if you wait a day, you’ll be one day past due.

Now, the brake fluid probably won’t trigger until 3 years and if you don’t drive 7500 miles in a year, the A01 might not trigger for 12 months. Bit some things will trigger after a certain number of miles. After that the clock starts ticking.

 

@Dzyak

Here is a link to a thread about analysis including link to the Blackstone report.

https://insideevsforum.com/community/index.php?threads/oil-analysis-report-on-a-2018-clarity.8749/

 

@ThomasZ @turtleturtle

Multiple threads on maintenance minder with hard data to demonstrate how it functions. No mystery. It's basic function is to tell soccer mom's/dad's when to change oil etc. etc. etc. and to put cash in the dealers pocket.

https://insideevsforum.com/community/index.php?threads/a-day-in-the-life-of-the-clarity-maintenance-minder.8189/#post-101836

Understanding what it is and what it does ( or doesn't do) can help an owner decide how to manage maintenance on their respective Clarity.

Hope this helps

 

The Clarity (and Insight) engine is a port injected Atkinson cycle engine. This is very different than the CRV's direct injected turbo engine. Gas direct injection can create a lot of engine problems if not designed properly like oil dilution. This is less likely to be a problem for the Clarity's engine. Nonetheless, one should avoid short drives in HV mode. Hybrids are so efficient that they have a harder time reaching full operating temps than conventional ICE cars where the engine is on all the time. That's the reason PHEVs have been criticized as being worse for the environment than conventional ICE cars. The study was done on people commuting by starting in EV mode, depleting the battery and having the car switch into HV mode. Because commutes are typically just a bit longer than the range of most PHEVs out there (15-25 miles for BMWs, Volvos, Mitsubishis, Kias, Prius Prime, etc), the gas engine kicks on for just a mile or few. It's the initial running of the engine that puts out the most harmful pollutants. So if you're going to use HV mode, make sure it's for a good number of miles each time.

 

As shocking as it may sound, not all service staff are “morons”, as you put it. They would certainly know more about it than I do; this is their actual day job. If they do their job, does that make them a moron?

The thread that was linked above has more info from reading codes. There IS a mileage trigger if you exceed 6/7k miles, otherwise it’s linear time. So it’s time-based unless you drive the car long distances on a regular basis.

The tech’s point was that it said “days overdue” and not “miles overdue” which confirmed it was due for oil due to time and not miles.

Let’s not reduce to calling the service techs morons. This guy was honest and shared what he knew. Hopefully you don’t treat them the way you talk about them.

 

Definitely does. Thank you! Both a time AND mileage if you drive enough.

 

I never suggested that they all were morons. I have known a few. Yours may not know as much about the car as you believe. I have also known people who have done their job for 30 or 40 years, who are effectively morons. They do exist in the wild.

This demonstrates my point. Some MM alerts are triggered by mileage. This invalidates the techs claim that they are 100% based on time.

This is where the tech is wrong. He’s made a foolish correlation. Once triggered by either mileage or time, it is then the delinquency period that is measured by time.

If he’s willing to learn about the car he can
elevate his status. If he continues to parade his ignorance and disseminate false information to customers, he’ll remain a moron. If that sounds tough on the guy, so be it. He’s supposed to know more about the car than you and me, but that does not appear to be the case.

 

My service has been triggered by mileage, and reports as 'days overdue', never 'miles overdue'.

 

This is just semantics...
Why does it mater whether the underlying trigger is miles, days, or a combination of both?
This is a 3rd-hand story about a technician who is quite likely completely competent and who's words are being over-interpreted.
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It matters because the information the tech provided is incorrect. Just take a look at the footnotes on the Maintenance Minder page in the owners manual and you’ll see several references to mileage intervals for certain service items.

You can dismiss the conversation in any number of ways. Some folks around here can be sticklers for details, at times, about how this car operates. This one is pretty simple, but is isn’t sinking in with everyone. Maybe we shouldn’t blow off the discussion just yet?