Repair issues and fixes

Well, as “Krusty the clown” once said (when asked where does all the fundraising money go), “…and those limos out back, they ain’t for free”.

All part of the “get buy in” from the dealership for selling EVs, especially since Hyundai just announced no more research and development in ICE…

 

Well, just for fun, I called another dealer (where I bought the car) and they also said that 04300-KX1B0 was superseded by 00232-1906-3. But their price was $53.85, and he would give me 10% off so actual would be $48.47. So I asked him whether they have done any customer oil changes, and he said yes, 9 so far. BUT he could not confirm whether those were Kona EVs or other cars.

Would be interesting if we could find the same spec 70W in a non-OEM product somewhere.

BTW, we literally have 11 Hyundai dealers all within 45 min of where I live. So lots of choices here.

 

Both the 70W-75 oils I've used, Redline and Penrite cost from NZ$40-50 per quart or litre and I'd bet the dealer's oil is even pricier. But Hyundai are not forcing us to do the oil change unlike they are with the blue coolant, it's more a matter of us owners wanting to decrease the possibility of having to replace the gear reducer out of warranty simply due to them wanting to save $3 per car. An Ioniq owner here had his reducer fail on his 5-yr old car at 70,000 km and had to pay for labour, several thousand $, with apparently only our consumer laws prevented him from being billed for the gearbox as well. I'd expect the same scenario to play out if mine failed in a few years. I'd happily pay for the new oil and magnetic plug just for not having to leave my car in the dealer's parking lot, nevermind tolerate the stress of getting major work done.

Most EVs by far use ATF in their gear reducers because that has the correct weight and gear tooth extreme-pressure rating (GL-4). Hyundai could have done the same but perhaps didn't because their 70W GL-4 light gear oil is stocked for use in the dual-clutch automatics used in the Kona ICE and many other models. There's no technical reason that I can see why we could not use ATF intended for conventional automatics as a substitute, however there's no advantage to that either, other than potentially cost.

As for the magnet, as I mentioned to recent queries on FB, installing one of any strength is infinitely better than none. Two is just twice times infinity, but that's still infinity. The drain plugs used on my small 4x4 on each of four gear casings have ceramic magnets, relatively weak in today's terms but they keep the oil clean. This is from the manual 5-speed gearbox after 40,000 km.



Just one note about out-of-warranty failures, a 2018 Kona owner here with nearly 150,000 km just had the charge port actuator fail and had to pay all costs, just over NZ$2100. We all know that this is a not an uncommon failure and almost certainly due to a design defect yet Hyundai accepted no responsibility. One owner in the UK said this issue was considered a recall item by his dealer.

 

Our local Lordco sells the Redline 70W75 for $23 and change. Next time I might want to change it myself. But I need a way to safely jack up my car to get under it to do the job. I do have ramps to drive up with the front wheels. But then I also need to jack the rear, so I can properly refill it. I don't have any jacks that can lift it high enough. Maybe I could construct a long wooden ramp to also raise the rear wheels at the same time.

Not planning to do this anytime soon, though, but just thinking ahead. Certainly would be a lot cheaper than going to a dealer.

 

I think some of us are getting pretty good at this procedure by now, lol.
The last time I simply lifted the car at the left-front factory-specified jacking point (just behind the front wheel) and removed only the front underside cover. Aside from a trolley (floor) jack I used a jack stand for safety. The car only needs to be lowered to be level while the new oil is added, or, you can just add a measured 1.00 to 1.05 litre.

It's much tighter to work under but a whole lot quicker. Using the ramps there is enough room to also check out all the underpinnings, take some photos and have a short nap.

 

Are you saying you left the rear wheels on the ground, and lowered the front of the car for the refill? How do you get under there to refill it with the front lowered? Isn't it pretty tight?

 

Yes, but it's not that difficult. You have to have a funnel with a tube attached running from the 12V battery area down to the filler opening. 15mm OD or less to make it fit the filler opening.
Just leave the car elevated and installed a measured amount via the funnel.

 

Oh, so you can fill it from the top? Yeah, that would make it a lot easier/safer. I just had a peek under the hood by the battery, but couldn't see any filler plug. But I guess the location will be more obvious from underneath when the bottom plug is removed for draining.

 

A lesson learned when I swapped my fluid out yesterday (and I have a lift):

Using the funnel and clear vinyl tubing as @KiwiME shows, one cannot “route” that tube successfully to the fill plug opening from the top, one must “pre dangle” that tubing from the top and then hunt out its location from underneath to then route it to the fill opening.

The funnel fits nicely between the 12 volt battery and the coolant recovery bottle, but I couldn’t find a logical path to route the hose whilst I was working from the top side…only once I was under the vehicle could I grab the hose and route it through the labyrinth of bits and bobs to the fill hole.

YMMV

 

I booked a reduction gear oil change on Dec 21 for my 2021 Kona at the dealership, as I have no desire to crawl under the car!
In the interests of building a corporate body of knowledge in this forum, I decided to order an oil test, to share the results.

This was the first change, at just over 25000 km. I previously ordered a test kit from a reseller for https://www.oaitesting.com.

At Hyundai, the technician collected my sample (see pic). The oil was fairly thin, and black.


I then sent the sample off to the lab in Edmonton, AB. The results came back today by email...
I am not a chemical engineer, and have no automotive training, so I can't interpret the results... Over to more qualified folks.
I do plan on changing the gear oil at least annually, but so far (knock on wood) I've not had any mechanical issues.

I've quoted the comment section here, and attached the (redacted) PDF.

Suggest that diagnostics, additional testing, or other condition monitoring tools be used to help identify the cause of the abnormal wear
condition. Aluminum is at a SEVERE LEVEL; ALUMINUM source in GEAR SYSTEMS may be BUSHING/THRUST metal, ALUMINA SILICA
(Dirt), HOUSING metal or contamination from ALUMINUM COMPLEX GREASE; Abrasives (silicon/dirt) are at a MODERATE LEVEL; Gear
and/or bearing metal is at a MINOR LEVEL; VISCOSITY is LOW for this application; Please provide missing FLUID PRODUCT NAME to
compare data to the correct standards. Please provide missing FLUID VISCOSITY GRADE to compare data to the correct standards. Unit
hours/miles/kilometers not provided for this sample. We acknowledge the FLUID INFORMATION was provided, however we were not
able to validate it within our database or from the fluid manufacturer. Please contact the Data Analysis Department to clarify the
information. Thank you.

 

Having the ramps you're more than half way there. While I showed two garage trolley jacks at the rear in my earlier "how I did it" post, one has since failed. (Not catastrophically! Just a small but essential clip broke and that stops it lifting. I need to weld it up.) I have found that one under the left side rear spring seat is enough. When the car is levelled in this manner the right side rear wheel is lifted off the ground. Not pretty, but no big deal, the car is stable. I still use jack stands under the rear lift points as a safety measure, even though all the work is under the front which is on ramps and cannot fall.

EDIT: I was going to add that for the equivalent of about AUD$70 you can buy a cheap Chinese 1800kg garage jack, in which case the purchase of that plus the oil would give you all you need to DIY and be cheaper than having a dealer do the job. But when I checked the store where I saw the jack some time ago, they no longer had them.

But if you can can get a jack at the right price you've got everything you need for regular out-of-schedule oil changes which is what I think this vehicle needs. Depending on what I find in the oil after my Kona reaches 10,000km (6000km after latest oil change), mine will be about every 10,000 or 20,000km. On that basis 70-odd bucks on a jack (maybe more for a better one) is well spent.

 

Thanks very much for sharing the analysis, every bit of information helps.

So, I quickly compared the key numbers to the two other Kona analyses we have:

DaveO_________OzKona______owner #2
25,000 km_____3,700 km_____15,600 km
148 Fe________95___________195
91 Al_________46___________145
51 Si_________50___________65
5.5 cSt100_____5.0__________5.5

Given that you have the highest kms of the three, I'd say you're in good shape relative to the others and the viscosity is spot on. We're not sure as to why the aluminium and silicon levels are high but I also have two reports from Leaf owners and their's are similar. The Leaf gear reducer is nearly identical in design to the Kona's.

 

Thanks for the feedback/advice KiwiME! I was getting a little worried with the "Red" category aluminum ppm, after reading the various posts here.

I will try and have the the service manager add my report to my maintenance record, so that if I run into problems, I can provide proof of "current" state.

 

I'm about to jump on oil change journey. always did my own work with last couple of cars if you want it done right DIY .

I called my local dealer for price quote on oil change .... never heard from them lol after been told I would get call back... long story they don't like electric cars last time they send me to get service next state over this was during covid maybe there tech quit. NJ -- NY not sure ....

after reading about magnetic oil plug ... I'm getting one although way pass the point of no return for my gears with 97k miles

going with Amsoil Severe Gear Lube 75W-90 what you guys think or should I go with Hyundai stock oil

actually just check way passed 97k

 

Lordco in Canada sells Redline 70W75 (close to OEM spec) for about $23/quart. The dealer didn't have gearbox oil change price in his computer so he just charged the same as for a differential oil change, $89. Oil was extra, and expensive. Next one for me will be DIY.

 

actually is not bad including shipping $41.27 for 2 quarts https://eliteracefab.com/products/red-line-mtlv-70w75-gl-4-1-quart?variant=39519029723304
I may go that way red line the code for item 50604 correct liked the pouch on amsoil I could just squeeze in
I'm in the states no-one sells those types of oil everything is buy online and wait... wish I could just go to many auto stores we have around but they don't stock it

 

Does Lordco ship to Ontario?

Do you have a link to their site showing that exact product? Thanks.

 

Oh, I thought Lordco was across Canada, but I see it is only in BC and Alberta. I did find this, though if you are near Toronto. Must be lots of stores there that carry it. The way I found it here, and then phoned, was first finding the product on the Red Line site, then just pressing the Find Near You button.
https://performanceimprovements.com/products/RL50604

 

Excellent, thanks!

 

There's nothing wrong with using the Amsoil DCT if you prefer that brand and don't live in an extremely cold area. The reference viscosity at 100°C is slightly higher than the Redline and Hyundai oils at 7.7 vs 5.0-5.5 but it's close. The stock Hyundai oil used in the Kona was intended for their DCT-type transmissions.