Petrol Shills and Tesla Shorters

Discussion in 'Energy' started by 101101, Nov 13, 2017.

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  1. 101101

    101101 Well-Known Member

    Want to point out some characteristics of the shills.

    You'll see XYZ of XYZ and this is some sort of self referant or double layered clue that its a reference to a branded shill.

    In some cases its a billionaire or we are supposed to believe that it is, but look a little deeper and its a front or the product of petrol nepotism and cronyism and just a mouth piece for petrol and phoney royalty (royalty is phoney to begin with) that runs through it.

    Another extreme bit of foolishness is that some of these shills try to pass themselves off as value investors. Value investors don't focus on criticizing tech firms and they sure as hell don't tout petrol with 2/3 of its assets or much more economically stranded with the world determined to keep at least that much in the ground.

    Chronic dishonesty is another shill marker. The is literally nothing that supports the continued existence of the petrol/fuel energy industry except that with insurance games its used derivatives to try and hold the financial world hostage thinking its next green driven non competitive bail out will result in bail-ins.

    But even the bankers have had enough. Petrol powers can"t really divest so already we've had Goldman execs saying stuff like "big oil was never really that big they've needed loans from us to pay dividends."
    Petrol shills and the industry feel they are being Machiavellian but their non wealth and their long term welfare queen status is coming to light. And as elsewhere protecting the rich from deflation isn't all that desireable a goal.

    Bigest clue that its a shill is chronic loud shorting of the Tesla and then trying to do phoney stories to make the short work.

    To me Tesla is Japan. You going to short their Trojan on green energy? You short their Prius? Prius made the case for electric even with double power train a primarily electric vehicle was more than viable and a pure electric an order of magnitude more so. It was a crazy bet it was a Trojan. For serious heavy loads hybrids in locomotive forms have been used for decades. But pure electrics are an order of magnitude better.
    Japan knowd this especially post Fukashima, so when you short Tesla you are shorting Toyota (Tesla is a Toyota Trojan) and Panasonic. How stupid does shorting those firms sound- and you know its the Japanese state behind that. But same with Chinese solar boom, Germany financed the initial haul and now its got legs and is running on its own.

    And why (?) because the world wants petrol dead as a matter of survival and not being enslaved and not screwing over coming generations. But the petrol shills are idiots and bet against this clarity- they can't even see their own self interest clearly. No one is going to slow this down. Response to slow down requests will be met with acceleration like China did. When Trump regime is ditched likely within a year or so, replacement will be back in Paris with accelerated time table to make up for regime's foot dragging with penalties likely including petrol 'reform'/restructuring including nixing its tax evasions, subsidues and planned bailouts in part as a consequence for non divestment even when the foot dragging gave it a tiny bit of room.
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  3. 101101

    101101 Well-Known Member

    Explaining the short sellers. Many are of course part of the petrol clan and this is where their money comes from.

    But among them it seems there is the sense that the people that brought us

    JFK, Nixon and his proteges, 70s oil embargo, Iran Contra, Iraq 1, 911, Enron, Iraq II, Katrina, Afganistan, Libya, the flooding of New Jersey and New York- maybe even Fukashima or at least what made it so helpless, and the petrol derivative 07 financial collapse and resultant austerity, and who keep attacking safety net to support their subsidies and bailouts, who brought us Puerta Rico and Harvey and climate denial and who keep threatening Iran and Korea for distraction- also plausibly big tobacco, the drug war, inflated defense and delinking wages from inflation- maybe brought us the civil war, anti net neutrality, widrawal from Kyoto and Paris...

    that these people will rise up and save petrol by crushing Tesla and others like Tesla. In essence they are expressing their faith in corruption and they are quite righeteous about it.

    But they have a huge problem that they refuse to see. The world relative to petrol is like a patient who realizes after walking around for 10 years with a colostomy bag and a J tube and G tube sticking out of them that in fact at best they only needed these implements for a few week if that. Moreover that the Drs who tend them have been charging way too much in an attempt to try to deliberately bankrupt their patient, further that they have been bribing, black mailing and threatening other Drs. to prevent second opinions and still further, now that the truth is out, been black mailing, threatening and bribing other Drs. to prevent the removal of the implements.

    These Drs are the the people the short sellers have faith in and the public is the group that has been subject to their actions and is propping up the stock of other Drs (i.e.,) that are working to remove the implements and get justice.

    Yet you see the contempt set by petrol shills like Romney with "Tesla is a loser" and Tesla is a cult.

    You see all the games they play too- the smearing in the sponsored media, the plant girlfriend, the manipulation of labor unions to presumably sabotage, the creation of non issues like production, the characterization of needed investment as losses, constant attempts to insert shill board members, insistence on profit for parasites as first priority endless attacks on sex and racial lines and apparently frivolous suits- sex stuff remuniscent of Gary Hart and Clinton and Assange and now Weinstein.

    But they are fighting freedom a cord cutting vision.

    Tesla makes or is about to make the best rockets, luxury car, luxury suv, mid sized car, super car, semi truck, residental roof top solar, battery packs. And pick up trucks, regular SUV and small vehicles are coming but these people still tell lies and bet against it.
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2017
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  4. 101101

    101101 Well-Known Member

    Might as well name some of the moron shills:

    Mitt Romney
    Bob Lutz
    David Einhorn
    Jim Chanos
    Sergio Marchione
    Half the staff at seeking Alpha
    Bernstein Tony Saganohi
    Goldman's David Tamberino

    Always crap like "Musk will leave Tesla soon" (because of petrol's attempts to install shill board members?) or Lutz "Tesla is going out of business." Is Panasonic going out of business?

    Thing that is so annoying is their analysis or comments tend to be so unintelligent and uninformed. You can see their thought process, they think they have insider info that the Trump admin has targeted Tesla for destruction and will use the full power of the USG to destroy it. Good luck I'd be surprised if Trump lasted 6 more months or if the Republican party lasted a year. My guess is Trump is only in office because of Anonymous. Imagine how much transparency that group can bring and which players it favors. It doesn't seem to favor any petrol fools on the contrary- apparently only got Trump over Hillary because she was a more agressive shill on starting WWIII in Iran to protect petrol and was nasty with Assange.
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2017
  5. 101101

    101101 Well-Known Member

    Some more to add to the shill list above:

    The Verge mixed
    Mercury News mixed
    Ars Technica mixed
    BBC intentionally inaccurate
  6. Rob Lay

    Rob Lay Administrator Staff Member

    Besides cars I also like to spectate the companies and markets on them. Tesla might be the most interesting right now! They are certainly doing things different and everyone else that you are listing is squawking! An animal starts squawking the most when being squeezed.
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  8. rosssr

    rosssr Member

    is this the tinfoil hat section?
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  9. 101101

    101101 Well-Known Member

    Ha funny.

    Add John Petersen to the list. Writes unintelligent dishonest stuff

    Also Bill Maurer

    Claiming tesla doesnt know how to treat customer- that is pure fool. Its like Chanos how is he credible? How much has he lost shorting Tesla? All they have os their attempts at self fullfilling prophesies and the sponsored media which Musk refuses to pay off or give them the bribes they call there revenue.
  10. WadeTyhon

    WadeTyhon Well-Known Member

    Hopefully the forum can get back to discussing EVs.

    For the first month or so I felt there were interesting discussions going on. Now not so much. Starting to feel like an electrek comment section. Fake outrage and rants by people doing nothing to further the adoption of EVs or discuss them with any maturity.

    Most likely because they saw 'who killed the electric car' once. These types usually do not own an EV themselves so they are overcompensating. And in turn actually helping to turn people off of electric drive because they're so off-putting. Dunno how much longer I'll bother posting here if that is what this forum will become.
    Domenick likes this.
  11. 101101

    101101 Well-Known Member

    Don't assume fake outrage on the part of others you don't know or attempt to project immaturity or minimize the political aspects. The political aspects are the core of the movement at this point. None of it would be happening without the politics. What you're asking for is censorship or you'll leave because you don't agree with a viewpoint(s)- essentially making at threat and implying resultant unpopularity for the site because disagreeable people might be heard while making a negative comparison to another site. You have the option to put people on block. Its like someone saying there are too many Republicans here I am going to leave.
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  13. WadeTyhon

    WadeTyhon Well-Known Member

    Aren't you the one who started a forum thread specifically to compile a list to label people as shills and shorters? Who says executives should be jailed for selling gas cars?

    Aren't you the one making accusations about people without any actual evidence?

    Aren't you the one who said the second a publication 'lies' (in your eyes) that they should be ignored?

    I have disagreed with people all the time with no issues. I enjoy an intelligent discussion with those I disagree with. I basically never use the Ignore button for that reason.

    For instance, I am capable of listing the positive impact Bob Lutz had on the introduction of EVs. But I can also criticize Bob Lutz for the boneheaded BS stuff he says about Tesla.

    You, on the other hand say things like "You see all the games they play too- the smearing in the sponsored media, the plant girlfriend, the manipulation of labor unions to presumably sabotage, the creation of non issues like production, the characterization of needed investment as losses, constant attempts to insert shill board members, insistence on profit for parasites as first priority endless attacks on sex and racial lines and apparently frivolous suits- sex stuff reminiscent of Gary Hart and Clinton and Assange and now Weinstein."

    So... what... Clinton and Assange and Weinstein are just being attacked by the petrol industry for.... some reason. So they forced them to molest or have affairs with women?

    I don't even understand what this has to do with Tesla or oil or EVs. I can't even follow what you are trying to say here. So maybe in this case the Ignore button would be appropriate. But it is merely delaying the inevitable. Bad posts attract other bad posts, hence my concern for the forum.
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  14. 101101

    101101 Well-Known Member

    No, more likely you don't like the viewpoint and want it censored as you have your own agenda. You're complaining about someone else and threatening to leave if action isn't taken. Its an appeal to mods but also an attempt to manipulate/coerce them.

    Funny in one of the anti Musk articles today after attempting to make the case that he should be remove they appeal directly the Tesla board which petrol seems bent on altering the make up of.
    Subtle isn't it?
  15. WadeTyhon

    WadeTyhon Well-Known Member

    My agenda is promotion of EVs. Tesla, GM, Nissan, etc. I want to learn about other people's EVs and I want to help people interested in them find the right model for them.

    The only thing I have ever suggested for a Mod was to include a section of the forum to discuss 'Energy Policy and Politics'.

    This section could remain a 'General EV' section. So that people who want to discuss politics and energy policy can do so in a specific section rather than all over the forum. That way things can stay more or less on topic in every section.

    I think this additional section would be good, don't you? :) Kinda like the brand specific boards but for the topic of politics and energy.
    101101 likes this.
  16. 101101

    101101 Well-Known Member

    I like that suggestion a lot!
  17. 101101

    101101 Well-Known Member

    More petrol shills

    Don Bailey
    Anton Wahlman
  18. 101101

    101101 Well-Known Member


    Lawrence Ulrich of the drive to the
    shills list.
  19. 101101

    101101 Well-Known Member

    When its Goldman going to fire David Tamberino. When even it necessary to try to box the Tesla stock so it doesn't exceed GM's valuation
    and cause total unmitigated panic in petrol land one one these paid shills (Chanos...Tamberino) starts lying for money. I know, Chanos is supposed to be smart or prescient because he supposedly has money he had something to do with making but their comments are so paid shill. Another out of the closet shill is the Tony Sacanoghi. Look at how much money these shills have lost misleading people.
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2018
  20. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    Sadly I must agree with most of your comments.

    When this forum was started, it seemed that it would cater to more thoughtful discussion, with contributors taking their time to make meaningful posts.

    But the forum is being overrun with a proliferation of zero-information-content threads started by one single "forum eccentric" who is greatly diluting the value of this forum in general. I keep hoping the moderator(s) here will step in and limit his ability to create an endless stream of new threads for tinfoil hat posts, but it appears they are not willing to do so.

    There is a strong Clarity PHEV section of this forum which has a lot of meaningful participation, but other than that, it seems most of the forum has been overrun by an endless stream of rants and tinfoil hat posts by this one individual. :(
    WadeTyhon likes this.
  21. WadeTyhon

    WadeTyhon Well-Known Member

    Most people lurk on forums before participating to try and get a feel for the place first. They want to make sure they understand the tone and culture of the community.

    When the first few people interested in the Clarity started popping up, I think we did a good job encouraging them to continue posting more in depth posts. Because all of us were generally interested and engaged and were learning about the car for the first time.

    Imagine if we all went on there telling them "Honda is a slave to the petrol INdustry and is in bd with exxon mobil and they're trying to fail convincingly blah blah blah!" And every time anyone wanted to say something interesting about the Clarity we posted a long thread about how terrible it is.

    I have to wonder what the other forum sections look like to a potential contributor. 101101 has thus far made no meaningful contribution to the forum. Any interesting discussion that comes out of a topic he starts is usually due to every other member ignoring his original post and changing the subject to a more important one.
    Pushmi-Pullyu likes this.
  22. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    Exactly. And yet he is, I think, the most prolific poster. Certainly he has started a lot more threads than anyone else.

    He is singlehandedly lowering the signal-to-noise ratio drastically.
  23. 101101

    101101 Well-Known Member

    This forum should be a lot more like Elecktrek. I've notice this forum is way more petrol friendly. But Elecktrek has
    better discussions with more experts. Saw a post early on with the Tesla semi and there was this woman who was some sort of Ph.d
    countering the BS in the media in the most efficient ways. Loved it. In the EV world is it really necessary to balance Pacifica with something more Alt Right or maybe this was intended to be KFI?

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