Model 3 teardown program

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by bwilson4web, Apr 18, 2018.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Please accept my apology if posted in the wrong area. There is program on Thursday, April 19, usually sometime in the USA East Coast afternoon:

    And speaking of the Tesla, you won’t want to miss this week’s Autoline After Hours. This is the show a lot of you have been waiting for because our special guest is Sandy Munro, who will be here to talk about his teardown of the Model 3. So if you have any questions, send them our way to viewermail@autoline.tv and join us for some of the best insider discussions in the auto industry.

    They live-stream the program and take questions. This is an excellent opportunity to get under the sheet metal. It is also available via podcast later and video playback.

    Bob Wilson
     
  2. Domenick

    Domenick Administrator Staff Member

    Thanks for the heads up on this.
     
  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    My report:

    Sandy Munro's company disassembled a Model 3 and this is the YouTube version . . . a short report. If you have any engineering interest, this is candy:
    • F - body fit and finish
    • A+ - electronic control boards, F-35 quality
    • A+ - steering and suspension, "F1 prince"
    • C - not designed for robot assembly, evidence of poor labor training
    • A+ - 2170 batteries, 6000 ma with variation of 0.2 ma between measured cells
    • D - quality a big problem
    Source:


    Bob Wilson
     
  4. Domenick

    Domenick Administrator Staff Member

    I caught a bit of it, near the end. Will have to watch again, but what I saw was pretty great. I feel like Elon should hire him as a consultant, or something.
     
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Early in the program, Sandy reports they typically return $20 in cost savings for every dollar spent for their report.
     
    Domenick likes this.
  6. David Green

    David Green Well-Known Member


    Actually If you hire Munro to consult, they can typically save you $20 for every $1 spent on consulting. They do work for a lot of companies and could certainly help Tesla. But I think Tesla should sub out the Model Y to Magna, have Magna help them with the design and build especially since they do not have a factory to build the Y currently.
     
  7. Domenick

    Domenick Administrator Staff Member

    I'm not opposed to the Magna idea, but I don't imagine they have enough capacity, and would probably have to also build a new plant for Model Y projected volumes.
     
    David Green likes this.
  8. David Green

    David Green Well-Known Member

    Yes, Magna would have to expand for sure, I think they are bursting at the seams now. Magna has been talking about building a US factory, but again its hard to scale as your skilled management is limited. When the management get diluted, pretty soon you have the same problems as Tesla currently has.
     
  9. Gearhead

    Gearhead Member

    Shouldn't this be featured news?
     
  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Since the program already ran, no.

    Bob Wilson
     
  11. Domenick

    Domenick Administrator Staff Member

    Finally got a chance to watch the whole thing. So good. Interesting to see the depth of their expertise.
     
    bwilson4web likes this.
  12. David Green

    David Green Well-Known Member

    It was interesting, some impressive engineering on the part of Tesla, at the same time some very alarming news if you are an investor. The fact that they are not using Finite Element Analysis as part of their design is crazy, every automaker is using this now to refine their designs, because you you not only make cars lighter and stronger, but also cheaper.
     
  13. Domenick

    Domenick Administrator Staff Member

    I think that's an assumption on their part, though it's clear to see how they get there.

    I do know that Tesla continuously refines their cars, though. For instance, they removed several hundred pounds over the first year or so from the Model S. They just don't really publicize it, unless a new feature is added or a concern that was public, corrected.
     
  14. David Green

    David Green Well-Known Member

    Yeah, it is pretty easy to tell when you look at a structure if Finite Element Analysis was used in the design, as the components usually have odd shapes and different thicknesses of materials. My neighbor is a VP with Altair Engineering (the FEA design company Munro mentioned) that was sent here to help BA on the 787, he has showed me a few examples of how FEA works on parts of my excavator and also race boat. It is very interesting tech, and if you understand the loads you are designing for it can really be helpful. My neighbor used to be in charge of the account at GM when he lived in MI, he said back then GM mostly used FEA for suspension parts, but nowadays they use it for body structure, crash, engine & transmission parts, just about every part on a car.
     
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  15. Domenick

    Domenick Administrator Staff Member

    I just mentioned in another thread about how Munro praised the body of the Bolt (close to where they mention FEA), so, as you say, it does seem like they use it in that particular body structure (and most likely every other body structure as well).

    I really wish a reporter familiar with these sorts of design and manufacturing systems could get access to Tesla, so we could get more into the nitty gritty of everything. I mean, it's cool that they brought CBS Morning News into the plant, but more industry specific reportage would be nice.
     
  16. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    After the Top Gear fiasco, I don't blame Tesla for being paranoid about the press ... especially the short-selling companies that have been taking a bath.

    Bob Wilson
     
  17. David Green

    David Green Well-Known Member

    Tesla is pretty secretive about their design and manufacturing process, but on the Model S it was a MI company that did the chassis engineering, I am not sure on the Model 3, because nobody has taken credit for it publicly, but when you look at the upper A arm Munro had on the teardown, that is obviously not a part that has been optimized using FEA. I am excited to see Munro next time on Autoline After Hours for a follow up when they have completed the job, should be end of May or early June.

    Yes, the Bolt body structure is outstanding, as can be seen in the crash test results, and also real world crashes, I saw pictures of one head on that looked terrible, but the passenger compartment was mostly intact and the battery did not catch fire. I think a car that shows more the direction GM is going in structural design though is the Cadillac CT6. That car is really a masterpiece of optimized design, and mass efficiency, when GM applies this same skill to the next generation EV, I think we are going to have something special.

    When I looked at the cutaway on the jaguar I-Pace it is obvious on many components that FEA was involved in the design. but with an all riveted/bonded aluminum structure it will be interesting to see how it holds up long term. If you get a chance check out this video from 13:00, its some amazing testing...
     
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  18. Cypress

    Cypress Active Member

    PNW
    He is assuming no FEA because the parts appear to be heavy. But I think that is likely due to planned additional loads and capabilities for the dual motor and performance versions. Keeping the same parts across the model variants saves costs and eases assembly.

    Tesla uses Dassault Systems 3DX PLM system and applications for engineering. Which includes advanced CAD, FEA, CAE, manufacturing simulation packages.
     
    Domenick likes this.
  19. Cypress

    Cypress Active Member

    PNW
    Odd shapes and varying thicknesses usually equates to extra costs. FEA can also be used without topology optimization, or the topology optimized part created by the stress engineer, can be reworked by a design and mfg engineer to make it cheap to produce and still meet the loading requirements.
     
  20. David Green

    David Green Well-Known Member

    That is not always true, especially if you are talking about a cast or forged-machined part. In a stamped part, what you are saying might be true. When you are trying to get the parts completely optimized, you are even looking for a gram here and a gram there. This the the way the big automakers do cars these days.
     

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