Longer Term Reliability?

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by TheTanMan, Mar 13, 2022.

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  1. Ray B

    Ray B Active Member

    Not sure if this document relates in any way how Honda (or Toyota, etc) calculates or measures total system power. But it can go some way to explain it, or at least show how complex the topic is...
    Frankwell and insightman like this.
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  3. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member Subscriber

    I'm not smart enough to interpret those graphs. I hoped to see equations with Honda's fudge-factor they use to standardize on 212-hp Total System Power, but instead I saw "HIGH BOLTAGE BATTERY." Did this come from a Chevy engineer?
    David in TN likes this.
  4. Valente

    Valente Active Member

    I just hit 76,000 mi on my 2018 Clarity. Aside from major AC problems 2 years ago, my car has been has been very reliable. I change the engine and cabin filter myself every 25,000 mi - very easy to do. I take the car into dealership for oil change as I don't trust Jiffy Lube type services.
    Dean Chao, TheTanMan and Johnhaydev like this.
  5. David Towle

    David Towle Active Member

    The good side of that is if you drive it often enough and conservatively enough your brakes will last a VERY long time. At 55k miles I still am on the angled/break in part of the pads so the full rotor area is still not being used, although its slowly expanding. I drive 5-7 days a week so no rust build up problems and rust does seem to get scraped off the unused part of the rotors fine as the pad area widens. I estimate the brakes on my car should be good for about 300k miles.
    insightman likes this.
  6. PHEV Newbie

    PHEV Newbie Well-Known Member

    There does not appear to be any regen when in reverse so all the stopping is via the friction brakes. To clean off the rust, just find a safe place, go in reverse and brake normally. Do this a few times and the rotors should be rust free.
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  8. Frankwell

    Frankwell Active Member

    You can also shift to neutral then use the brakes to slow down. Of course when safe to do so, i.e. level ground and no other cars around. To shift to neutral while the car is moving you press and hold the neutral button.
  9. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member Subscriber

    The answer is clearly: Drive the car. However, I keep wondering if there are cars with discs that don't rust.

    Before I had my rotors turned a few years ago, I tried panic-style stops from 70-mph, tried reversing and jamming on the brakes, I tried riding the brakes at 30 mph, but the rough scraping sound continued.

    This YouTuber shows how to pull your rotors, sand them by hand, and then spray-coat them with a zinc coating to prevent them from rusting. He uses Normfest Galva 97 Silver, which is a German zinc-aluminium undercoat spray, which doesn't appear to be available in the US. I'm skeptical it would last after using the brakes--then, again, I'm not using the brakes.
  10. David Towle

    David Towle Active Member

    I think you don't understand. You can't abrade the rust where the pads are not touching the disc yet. Eventually they will make contact along the full width of the disc but not yet at 55k miles. The untouched areas of my rotors are currently one eighth and three eighths inch on the rear rotors, and one half and three quarters inch on the front rotors. All on the OD of the discs.
  11. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member Subscriber

    I can't abrade the rust where the pads are touching the disc. The rust is so bad that I hear a swish-swish-swish sound continuously--even when I'm not using the brakes. I have to turn up the radio very loud to keep from condemning the brakes every second I'm driving. At 14,060 miles my service advisor says I can have the rotors turned (for $900) just one more time--after that they will be too thin to turn again will have to be replaced ($????).

    Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how do you like your Clarity? Other than that, it's a great car, she replied.
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  13. $900? One more time? Please don’t tell us that you’ve paid that price for that service before. That a $200 job, tops, and includes new brake pads. Alternatively, you can buy 4 new rotors for about $200.
  14. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Oops, I just looked at my service receipt again. The service I declined was not $270/wheel, but $270/axle, so my dealer would charge me $540 to turn all 4 rotors. The one time I had the rotors turned it was under warranty.

    When I looked online for OEM Clarity rotors, I found $97.54 per rear rotor and $89.93 per front rotor, or $374.94 + shipping. However, I have seen aftermarket brake kits with 4 rotors and pads as cheap as $391.43 + shipping. I'd pop for any aftermarket kit that claimed their discs were rust-proof (hoping they didn't double my stopping distance).
  15. David Towle

    David Towle Active Member

    I looked at Rockauto for you, there's a number of coated, "Additional protection for rust prone areas" Clarity rotors for $35-$75 each. I never turn rotors, always replace with new, its so easy to do.
    insightman likes this.
  16. Rajiv Vaidyanathan

    Rajiv Vaidyanathan Active Member

    Going back to the original question, I am at 43K+ on my 2018 Base and have had no real problems other than the irritation with the wipers and the issue with Sirius XM going dead whenever I precondition the car.
    TheTanMan likes this.
  17. Linkmodo

    Linkmodo Member

    70000 miles and going, no issues at all.
    TheTanMan likes this.
  18. David in TN

    David in TN Well-Known Member

    Safelite stocks windshield for the Clarity now. (I've had mine replace with a non-factory one.)
    I'm still on my original A/C compressor. No issues yet.
    TheTanMan likes this.
  19. i recently chatted with a VOLT owner. His VOLT was an older one, but he said his break pads are almost untouched at 113,000 miles.
    David Towle likes this.
  20. JeffJo

    JeffJo Member

    A conventional gas car has only one device that produces power. By that, I mean converting stored energy into energy that is moving from one place to another. So the ICE converts gasoline into kinetic energy applied through a rotating driveshaft.

    The HP rating of such a car - actually, the engine - is called "SAE Net." There are rules for how to measure it, but essentially it is the maximum power at the flywheel, after the engine powers necessary (to its operation) devices like oil and water pumps. The purpose of this rating is to consistently compare the engines in various cars, not the cars themselves.

    Some of this power gets pulled off by the serpentine belt to power alternators, pumps, compressors, and what-not. Some gets lost in the transmission. There is no easy formula, but an estimate that I've seen is that at most 85% of the SAE Net can actually reach the wheels. This is where the 212 HP number comes from.

    All of the cars mentioned above have two power producers - the ICE and the battery. Note that this does not include the traction motor. It converts power from one for to another. It needs something else to actually produce that power. In the Clarity, Accord, and CR-V, the motor can apply at most 181 HP to the wheels.

    If we use the same 85% estimate
    , these three cars need their two power producers to be capable of at least (181/0.85)=212 electrical HP. This is the design requirement for the system. There is no reason they can't produce more, but they won't since the car is incapable of using more. There is no reason why the true maximums have ti be the same. They just need to be more that 212 HP.

    This number is the best value to use when comparing to a pure ICE car, since it represents power at the same point in the system. And if you check any other Honda iMMD hybrid, you will find that (Combined Power)*85% = (Traction Motor Power).
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2022
  21. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member Subscriber

    IMO, that's the only number that counts. Honda's claim that cars with differing battery kWh and differing ICE horsepower all make 212 hp bugs me.
  22. JeffJo

    JeffJo Member

    Then you must have hated it before electrified vehicles became available, since nobody published "the only number that counts" for cars. They only published numbers that were more-or-less comparable to the 212 HP value.

    The point that I don't see you grasping (or at least you hide it well under indignation), is this: Your Clarity "makes," at maximum, 212 HP. It is capable of "making" more than that, but it won't because energy is conserved. That means that any power it "makes" has to be used as it is "made." The Clarity can use at most 181 HP for traction and an estimated 31 HP for other devices. So even if it has the capability to "make" more, it won't since it hes no place to send it.

    Yes, the 181 HP for traction is more informative about what the car can do. But historically, it is not a number that was ever available before electrified cars. Most hybrids can't even tell you what it is. The Honda iMMD hybrids can because they are serial hybrids in high-power situations. But you won't understand what it means until you stop referring to it as "power made," and start referring to it as "power to the road."
  23. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Up until I bought my 67 hp (73 hp with IMA motor) 2000 Honda Insight the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) defined how to calculate horsepower. Maybe because it was a parallel hybrid, Honda didn't need to come up with their own way to define total horsepower.
    So the Clarity PHEV could have produced more horsepower but Honda chose to limit the "output" to 212 hp? Do the computers in the Clarity Plug-In Hybrid, the Accord Hybrid, and the CR-V Hybrid all impose a 212-hp energy-conservation limit? I would find that explanation more plausible than saying that running at full-bore all three vehicles are capable of a maximum of 212 hp.

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