ICE does not turn off, after turning on to protect full battery

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by michael shama, Feb 25, 2019.

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  1. Richard Kelly

    Richard Kelly Member

    not sure, but wouldn't running the front defroster set with temp set point up high run both the heater and AC at the same time. That might reduce the heat added to the cabin during the summer months. Also, rear defrost might expend some energy load.
     
    Robert_Alabama likes this.
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  3. Robert_Alabama

    Robert_Alabama Well-Known Member

    Tried @Richard Kelly recommendation of defroster set at high temp. I also set 3/5 fan speed. Success with no ICE running for regen. Again this was only for at most one minute of run time so car environment isn't noticeably affected. I'll try the fan speed lower tomorrow and see if reducing it does anything. I'd bet that this solution depends highly on by how much the regen exceeds what Honda allows for charging the near full battery as to how much load you need to avoid the ICE. So I am just finding the answer for my particular case. That means I won't bug everyone with more posts about me narrowing into the least intrusive way to do this for my specific situation. I just wanted to share that this idea of using heater load to avoid ICE running for a predictable (recurring) regen event has a possibility of success. I am just very happy to have found an answer for my particular situation.
     
    Ceetee likes this.
  4. The Gadgeteer

    The Gadgeteer Active Member

    I figured you had to be somewhere warm to have this issue during winter because using the heat even for a couple of minutes would easily consume enough charge to be able to regen.
     
  5. ClarityBill

    ClarityBill Active Member

    As I posted on another thread, I had the ICE come on with heavy braking and battery at 50% SOC in EV mode. My experience may have also been a cold-battery issue.

    It seems like regen can be too much for the battery, even at lower charge.
     
  6. bobcubsfan

    bobcubsfan Active Member

    Pure b.s. For a couple of days now after a short ride downhill and braking twice, the ICE did NOT come on. BUT going UPHILL and barely tapping the brake the ICE DID come on and stayed on for a couple of while BUT the HV went down by double that AND observing the flow of energy on the dash, the ICE was on but doing NOTHING but run. Not going to the wheels or braking or anything.
     
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  8. Ceetee

    Ceetee Member

    Another instance where the ICE runs if in the very beginning of my commute going downhill I use the regen paddles. Engine stays on until a few miles of freeway driving. I rarely use paddles, and definitely won't be doing that at the start of every morning.
     
  9. bobcubsfan

    bobcubsfan Active Member

    You would have better luck predicting which number comes up on a roulette wheel than trying to figure out the random number generated by the onboard computer that triggers the ICE to come on.
     
  10. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    That must make me the luckiest man in the world since my engine virtually never comes on unless I manually select HV or run out of charge.
    Except for a couple of trips over 50 miles, I haven’t lost a single bar on the gas gauge in a little over a year and 8,000 miles.
    Sorry yours is misbehaving.
     
    insightman, Robert_Alabama and MPower like this.
  11. bobcubsfan

    bobcubsfan Active Member

    I am not the only one.
     
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  13. Robert_Alabama

    Robert_Alabama Well-Known Member

    I know we aren't making you feel better, but I am pretty much in the same camp as KentuckyKen. Yes, I've had some engine ICE starts, but some kind members here have helped me figure out a regen event starting ICE and an easy workaround to stop it on my daily drive. I have burned less than a gallon of gas in 3 months, most of that due to being too aggressive in acceleration so I really shouldn't even notice the ICE running in normal behavior for the car. @bobcubsfan, how much gasoline are you burning across time with these random ICE starts on your car?
     
  14. bobcubsfan

    bobcubsfan Active Member

    Hard to know exactly, but the HV goes down about 3-5 miles each time AND so does the EV. So it is "burning" gas and battery. When I observe the flow of energy, as I stated above, the ICE is not always connected to the drive time. Sometimes it is just idling.

    At this point, I have given up. Consumers vote with dollars. Either buy (lease) or don't buy a product. We are stuck 1/3 of the way in a 36-month lease. So, what can I do? Advise friend and relatives and anyone else who will listen NOT to acquire a Clarity, and by extension, any other Honda product since the company refuses to acknowledge that there is a problem.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2019
  15. bobcubsfan

    bobcubsfan Active Member

    Best estimate since January 20 have burned about 1 gallon of gas due to ICE coming online. Yes, I know that is not a lot, but it should be zero use of gas unless the EV runs out.
     
  16. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    Bob, it will never be zero since this is a PHEV and the manual lists the various scenarios where the ICE will come on, but it should be a lot less than what you are reporting. Your Clarity is not behaving like what the vast majority of us consider to be normal. I would be frustrated too if mine was acting like yours. I hope you can get Honda to own up to the fact that your ICE operates much more frequently than the rest of ours. But you can’t realistically expect it to be zero.
     
  17. craze1cars

    craze1cars Well-Known Member

    Owners manual quotes I assume Ken is referring to:

    The car will select the appropriate source of power depending on the drive mode you select.
    As a result, the engine will automatically start or stop as needed to either charge the battery or provide supplemental power.
    Under certain circumstances, the engine may turn on or, if it is already on, it may not turn off.
    ● You are going uphill or accelerating aggressively.
    ● The climate control system is in heavy use.
    ● The Ambient temperature is too hot or too cold.
    ● The High Voltage Battery state of charge is very low.
    ● The vehicle is running a system check.
    System Check
    When the engine initially starts (between the time the POWER button is turned on and turned off), the vehicle conducts a system check.
    ● While the check is being conducted, the engine may periodically turn on and off. This, however, is normal.
    ● The curved blue line in the POWER/CHARGE Gauge will not appear during the system check (EV indicator may still turn on).
    ● Once the engine starts, it will continue to run until the system reaches operating temperature.
    The curved blue line in the POWER/CHARGE Gauge will reappear once the system check is completed.


    One gallon over the course of 1.5 months isn't very much....though I'm not sure how many miles that represents for you. But that represents a rate of about 8 gallons per year, which in my estimation should absolutely be required for this engine to run, just to get old fuel out of the system and keep things lubricated and functional in the ICE system.

    So I guess I'm not too surprised Honda won't acknowledge there is a problem, when the manual has a giant disclaimer such as printed above. They basically tell us all that the engine may start randomly at any time for any reason and is likely to run for a while when it does. And that doesn't even mention the whole braking with near full charge thing...so there may be other circumstances not on the list. So if a customer comes in complaining the engine runs randomly, they can just point to this disclaimer and blow off the complaint.

    I absolutely didn't buy this car to use it like an EV 100% of the time...I exceed the EV range regularly, so I absolutely burn fuel. I'd guess in the past 1.5 months I've burned 25 gallons of fuel to Bob's 1 gallon. So it's very difficult for me to compare my sense of what is "normal" for this car, compared to someone who uses the car completely different from me and is expecting the car to stay in EV at all times if there is any EV range remaining. I never had that expectation. My car does randomly start periodically while it still has EV range remaining, and I think when it does so I can look back and see it is usually because of one of the many reasons listed above in the manual...and I'd guess 4 times it just made no sense at all so I chalked those up to maybe just the system check. So I never considered it a defect during the occasional times it does so.

    Bob just curious if you ever tried the disconnect-the-battery-thing, to reboot your car, that someone here had some success with when theirs was going a bit wonky?

    FWIW I support you 100% in complaining. If you're not satisfied with your product, and Honda's not handling your dissatisfaction appropriately, then you go on and continue to publicly beat them SOB's down! It is the only power you have without going the attorney route and wasting money. Honda is nothing but a giant stupid profit-generating corporation that doesn't truly care one iota about any individual on earth, so none of us should have any loyalty to them whatsoever. So I'm not here saying you're wrong, or trying to defend your car or Honda or anything. Genuinely I'm just wishing you well and trying to help a smidge, in my own inept way, since you seem to be stuck with a car that frustrates you. And that sucks.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2019
  18. bobcubsfan

    bobcubsfan Active Member

    I ran into a Volt owner. He says ICE NEVER comes on unless he chooses it or his battery is dead. In the Volt you can choose EV, ICE or HV mode.
     
    Tim66 likes this.
  19. Robert_Alabama

    Robert_Alabama Well-Known Member

    I own a 2012 Volt and it is true that it doesn't behave the same as the Clarity. In fact my Volt is generally louder than the Clarity when the ICE runs. It is not true that the ICE never comes on unless you choose it or the battery is dead. The Volt requires gas burn occasionally for "engine maintenance". It will run for a few minutes. It also will force the ICE on in cold weather. My 2012 will start the ICE at 25 degrees Fahrenheit, I think. I think the 2015 and later can be altered by the driver to turn on at 35 or 15 degrees F. But I like the Clarity much better than the Volt. The Clarity is a much bigger car (and heavier) so it kind of needs the ICE to help with acceleration. As to the ICE starting for regen, I'm not fond of that behavior, but it isn't enough of a pain that it turns me away from the car. I don't know of a car I'd rather have than the Clarity for it's price point. But don't get me wrong, the 2012 Chevrolet Volt is a great car and I'll miss it when I get rid of it.
     
  20. MGT

    MGT New Member

    Here in southern California, I have the exact same issue of the ICE turning on when the car is in EV mode. We live at the top of a fairly steep hill. I leave for work typically with a sufficiently-charged battery and start off in EV mode. Within minutes as I coast downhill, the blue EV line turns to ICE white and stays ICE white for many miles of flat surface streets. It finally returns to EV blue right around the time I get near the freeway, whereupon I put the car in hybrid mode. Initially, I thought this was a potential issue but after reading a lot of posts here, I now realize it's normal and not worrisome.
     
  21. Robert_Alabama

    Robert_Alabama Well-Known Member

    @MGT, if this ever annoys you, you can try to limit charging to less than 90% so that the battery isn't so picky about the amount of regen. My suggested way to do that is watch the Hondalink ap and remotely stop at about the right level of charge (kind of painful to monitor). Instead of limiting the charge, my chosen fix for my regen starting ICE is to turn on the defroster as soon as I get in the car and then turning it off after the car has gotten through the first area of regen. For me this is only about a minute of defroster run. This gives enough electrical loading for me that the ICE won't fire up.
     
    MGT likes this.
  22. Tim66

    Tim66 Active Member

    I have the same issue but for different reasons. Occasionally the ICE comes on no matter what the weather or battery level. Yesterday I was 15 miles into a trip running in EV mode. I needed to change lanes quickly and floored the accelerator. As expected the ICE came on but remained on for the next 30 miles. Switching to EV, HV and Sport mode had no effect, it remained on. I pulled into a rest area and shut off the car. When I immediately restarted it it was in EV mode. I've read the Manual section posted above but this ICE behavior is not covered or acceptable to me. Anyone else had this happen?
     
    bbct and KentuckyKen like this.
  23. Mark W

    Mark W Active Member

    CT
    I
    I know there is a person here with the member name of Yannick who has reported the same thing where his ICE does not shut off after starting like you said. There is no reason it should stay on for THAT long. Sounds like a software bug.
     

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