I won't be charging at Circle K

Discussion in 'General' started by bwilson4web, Mar 25, 2023.

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  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Source:

    About 2/3ds of all EVs are Tesla yet Circle-K has ONLY the CCS-1 plug:
    • Touch charging port cover - Tesla has touch-less charging port opening
    • Large, heavy CCS-1 plug - the Tesla plug is about 1/3d the size and weight
    • $0.44/kWh - is more than $0.36/kWh charged the past 31 days at SuperChargers
    • Apple Pay cell phone - Tesla requires no cell phone or cell phone reader
    • "... those who don't drive Teslas ..."
    EVgo builds fast DC chargers with a working, Tesla plug. I don't have to spend hundreds of dollars upgrading my 2019 Tesla Model 3 to use an EVgo CCS-1 plug and pay their higher electric rates.

    Thanks for the warning.

    BTW, when are the CCS-1 advocates going to ever criticize those who do not have a Tesla plug on their fast DC chargers? Are all but EVgo incompetent or choose to ignore 2/3ds of all EV owners?

    Bob Wilson
     
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  3. Puppethead

    Puppethead Well-Known Member

    Tesla has its own charging network, which serves Tesla owners quite well. Those of us with CCS-1 EVs are an underserved demographic, so it makes sense for Circle K to cater that group. Considering the quality of the Tesla charging experience is it realistic to expect a large number of Tesla drivers to seek out non-Tesla charging options?
     
    mtd and DJP like this.
  4. marshall

    marshall Well-Known Member

    With the demand charges being what they are, it would seem to make sense to include a Tesla connector on new installs to make sure the stations are used to their fullest. Plus, Circle K picks up a few more customers buying food.

    I suspect many of these new installations are funded in part with government grants or other manufacture money, and as such, there may be some restrictions we don't know about.
     
  5. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Maybe those quiet EV drivers instead spend their time wishing for CCS charging stations that would be as reliable as the more numerous Tesla charging stations.
     
  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    If a government grant, it should require plugs in proportion to EV sales by type of plug. After all, Tesla owners pay taxes too.

    The double standard by car reviewers about CCS-1 over Tesla connectors, is so disgusting.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  8. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member Subscriber

    I wish Elon had not waited 10 years before declaring Tesla's propietary connector the “North American Charging Standard.” Charging might have been much more convenient in the long run.
     
  9. Bruce M.

    Bruce M. Well-Known Member

    Also, Tesla's EV market share is dropping like a rock and will continue to do so. Companies installing chargers need to think of the market in future years, not just today.
     
  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Perhaps 10 years ago, the CCS-1 advocates should have taken up Elon’s open patents offer.

    Who is making money from CCS-1?

    Bob Wilson
     
  11. teslarati97

    teslarati97 Well-Known Member

    For those interested, you can read the fine print.
     
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  13. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member Subscriber

    I was foundering trying to read Tesla's legalese, but this summary at the bottom seems easy to interpret:

    What this pledge means is that as long as someone uses our patents for electric vehicles and doesn’t do bad things, such as knocking off our products or using our patents and then suing us for intellectual property infringement, they should have no fear of Tesla asserting its patents against them.

    Perhaps companies felt safer following the SAE's CCS standard rather than risk getting embroiled later in possible patent litigation if Tesla felt their free patent-use conditions were being violated.
     
    teslarati97 likes this.
  14. marshall

    marshall Well-Known Member

    I know you dislike Elon, but I think Tesla is going to have a record quarter.

    Anyhow, you have to pay the demand charges and maintenance costs today and not in the future. As such, it doesn't make any sense to ignore as many customers as Tesla brings to the table.
     
  15. teslarati97

    teslarati97 Well-Known Member

    It's pretty much lopsided in Tesla's favor, and the scope extends to ANY Tesla patents current and going forward.
     
  16. Puppethead

    Puppethead Well-Known Member

    That is a valid point, but there's also the cost of coming up with a solution to provide dual connectors. Perhaps Circle K has made the calculus that what their convenience stores offer are compelling enough that if Tesla owners really want to charge at their locations they'll get their own CCS adapter. Or maybe since the video is showing a testing site Circle K just hasn't rolled out a Tesla solution yet.
     
  17. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    What Tesla patent lawsuits?

    The first one Mr. Google returned: https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/05/business/nikola-drops-suit-tesla/index.html

    New York CNN Business

    Upstart electric truck maker Nikola is dropping its $2 billion patent infringement lawsuit against Tesla in which it charged that its larger, more established rival stole parts of Nikola’s design for a heavy duty truck.

    The suit was originally filed in 2018, when Tesla was still losing money, running short on cash and its stock was struggling. At the time, Nikola was a hot start-up with promises of hydrogen-powered semi-trucks and pickups and claims of a massive order book.

    Since then Tesla has gone from perennially losing money to profits, and now has a soaring market value worth more than $1 trillion. It’s more valuable than the world’s 12 largest automakers.
    . . .

    Bad, bad, Tesla letting someone else sue them for patent infringement. Is that what you mean?

    Bob Wilson
     
  18. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    The excuses for continued CCS-1 instead of Tesla connectors:
    • Heavier weight of plug and socket
      • small stature people struggle
      • EVs are heavier
    • More expensive to manufacture
      • increases EV vehicles costs
      • increases EV charging station costs
    • Unreliable payment systems
      • requires an RFID card for each network
      • requires a working credit card reader
      • requires a cell phone App
      • must have a support service call center
    The best answer is to adjust the cost of non-Tesla users to:
    1. Cover the costs Tesla owners have already paid
    2. Encourage non-Tesla owners to experience the joys of CCS-1 networks.
    Bob Wilson
     
  19. marshall

    marshall Well-Known Member

    I would think the demand charges would be a bigger concern then the cost of adding a Tesla connector.

    Circle K makes their money selling food and beverages. I makes no sense to give Tesla owners the middle finger. If I was Circle K, I wouldn't allow these charging stations on my property unless they included a Tesla connector.
     
  20. marshall

    marshall Well-Known Member

    I would like to see InsideEVs to ping Circle K and find out what they can about the lack of Tesla connectors.
     
  21. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Tesla wrote: "...as long as someone uses our patents for electric vehicles and doesn’t do bad things..."

    What I meant was that companies using patented Tesla technology would have to always worry about Tesla's possibly fluid definition of "bad things." It clearly didn't make sense to Tesla to release their connector technology to the public domain, but that's the only way other manufacturers would have felt safe adopting that technology.
     
  22. Is this the replay of the old (very old) Beta vs VHS battle (Sony vs everyone else) happening? Sorry if the young-uns here don't get this...
     
    arhnold and DJP like this.
  23. Puppethead

    Puppethead Well-Known Member

    Not sure how it's an insult to Tesla owners. The Tesla network exists for them, and nothing stops any Tesla driver from shopping at a Circle K.
     
    Bruce M. likes this.

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