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How does the EPA determine range and MPGe??

Discussion in 'Hyundai Kona Electric' started by FloridaSun, Jul 18, 2019.

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  1. Jul 18, 2019 #1
    FloridaSun

    FloridaSun Well-Known Member

    Lakeland, Florida
    I wonder if the EPA includes AC and heater use in their test cycle? I don't see how the Kona would "only" get 258 miles of range and 120 MPGe. I've owned many ICE vehicles and even when driving very conservative without a heavy foot, it was a challenge to even reach the EPA's numbers. For example, I used to own a brand new 2012 Hyundai Elantra with 40 mpg highway rating (later adjusted to 38 mpg). The best mpg I ever got on a tank of gas was about 44 mpg (hypermiling) and I averaged about 39 mpg on the car (and I took the car out of gear (6-speed) and let it roll downhill and also shut off the engine at longer stops at lights to get that fuel efficiency). Now, on the Kona, If I try to take it easy and minimize AC use, I get between 5.8 and 6.0 miles/kwh. That is 195 - 202 MPGe, over 70 MPGe better than the EPA rating. Even with AC use on most trips and normal driving (but staying at the speed limit at 70 mph in Florida), I get at least 4.5 miles/kwh (= 151.65 mpge) which is still way above the EPA rating. If I would have driven my Elantra like that, I would have averaged about 5 mpg below the EPA rating at about 33 mpg, yet, with the same driving style, I'm getting still way above the EPA rating for the Elantra. The only way for me to explain this would be that part of the EPA testing cycle is heater and AC use. Does anyone know? There seems to be a huge difference in the way ICE cars and EV's are rated.. Another note. My daily commute is actually more ICE friendly than EV friendly as I have no city driving.. I have no traffic lights to get to the Interstate and 1 traffic light when I get off it to get to my office.. On my way home, I have 3 traffic lights to get home. The rest is highway. (commute is a total of 23 miles each way)
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
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  2. Jul 18, 2019 #2
    brulaz

    brulaz Active Member

    Ontario Canada
    One huge difference between ICE and BEV is the effects of ambient temperature on the battery and range. Dunno what ambient the EPA uses, but everybody knows to reduce their estimate by 40- 50% when it gets really cold (30 below). So maybe the EPA's test reflect cooler temperatures than summer.
     
  3. Jul 18, 2019 #3
    FloridaSun

    FloridaSun Well-Known Member

    Lakeland, Florida
    Would be interesting to know the exact testing conditions.. Here in Florida, I could see the average range being closer to 300 than 258..
     
  4. Jul 18, 2019 #4
    XtsKonaTrooper

    XtsKonaTrooper Well-Known Member

    SW Ontario
    When i had the Ioniq PHEV, i was told it was based on California weather with a temperature of 22c.
    I dont get how different countries, the range is all over the place with EPA. In Canada, the range is 415km.
     
  5. Jul 18, 2019 #5
    FloridaSun

    FloridaSun Well-Known Member

    Lakeland, Florida
    Those 415 km pretty much match the 258 mile range in the US. If they really tested this in California, I would believe that they tested without heat or AC and the range should have been close to 300 and the MPGe closer to 4.5 mi/kwh.. Strange.. When it comes to gasoline cars, the fuel efficiency seems to be exaggerated by the EPA and on EV's it seems to be deflated.
     
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  6. Jul 18, 2019 #6
    R P

    R P Well-Known Member

    Vancouver, BC, Canada 2023 Solterra Tech Pkg
    Does the EPA actually do the testing, or does the manufacturer have to test it to the EPA test protocol and submit results? If the latter, maybe Hyundai was just being conservative given this is a brand new battery and power train.

    And interesting that Canada comes up with the exact same range. Doesn't sound to me like there was a separate set of tests run.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  7. Jul 18, 2019 #7
    XtsKonaTrooper

    XtsKonaTrooper Well-Known Member

    SW Ontario
    I believe average outside temperatures, are gonna play a big role in those figures. Because in my area, since overnight temperatures have gotten warmer, my range has increased.
    Also driving speeds to, as i mostly drive highway and hardly drive at city speeds, so my brake regen production is not as high.
     
  8. Jul 18, 2019 #8
    XtsKonaTrooper

    XtsKonaTrooper Well-Known Member

    SW Ontario
    Canada cheaps out and often relies on US stats imo.
     
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  9. Jul 18, 2019 #9
    FloridaSun

    FloridaSun Well-Known Member

    Lakeland, Florida
    I believe that the manufacturer has to test based on EPA specs. Hyundai has gotten in trouble with the Elantra before when they overestimated it's efficiency by 2 mpg. Maybe they wanted to be cautious.
     
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  10. Jul 18, 2019 #10
    FloridaSun

    FloridaSun Well-Known Member

    Lakeland, Florida
    It appears that they went with the US EPA numbers..
     
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  11. Jul 18, 2019 #11
    Jared Potter

    Jared Potter Member

    Victoria, BC
    It’s not a matter of opinion haha it’s fact that Canada uses the EPA data for its cars. The data is simply converted to km/litres etc. No point in Canada taking and testing samples when the info is already done.
     
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  12. Jul 18, 2019 #12
    KiwiME

    KiwiME Well-Known Member

    New Zealand '2019' EU, heat pump, pink coolant
    My local testing on rural highways returns 300 km over 72% SoC, extrapolated to 100% that's 417 km. Ambient is 8-15°C. GoM is 465 winter/515 summer.
     
  13. Jul 18, 2019 #13
    electriceddy

    electriceddy Moderator Staff Member

    Nanaimo BC, 2021 Kona Ultimate Built Sept 2020
    That sounds pretty close to what I have seen so far. Van isle (Nanaimo) did have a cold snap when I picked up the car in Feb, went down to 0 and peaked at 2 ( average 5), probably close to the same weather you get in N.Z.
     
  14. Aug 18, 2020 #14
    electriceddy

    electriceddy Moderator Staff Member

    Nanaimo BC, 2021 Kona Ultimate Built Sept 2020
    According to this article EPA uses a Muti Cycle City/ Hwy Test Procedure then multiplies the preliminary range (measured on the dyno) and efficiency #s by .7
    https://cleantechnica.com/2020/08/18/how-does-epa-calculate-electric-car-range/
    mileage may vary depending on conditions.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2020
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  15. Aug 18, 2020 #15
    cmwade77

    cmwade77 Active Member

    I strongly suspect Hyundai intentionally did something to make the EPA range lower, as no one will complain when their vehicle gets almost 50 miles more to a charge than the EPA estimates, but almost everyone would complain if it got say 50 miles less than the EPA estimates. It's too bad other EV makers haven't followed suit.
     
  16. Aug 18, 2020 #16
    FloridaSun

    FloridaSun Well-Known Member

    Lakeland, Florida
    I'm sure that they still remember the Elantra fiasco.. I had a new 2012 Elantra and they paid me a few hundred dollars until I sold it at 100k miles..
     
  17. Aug 18, 2020 #17
    cmwade77

    cmwade77 Active Member

    Umm, honestly, I am not sure what you are referring to, what happened?
     
  18. Aug 18, 2020 #18
    FloridaSun

    FloridaSun Well-Known Member

    Lakeland, Florida
    Hyundai had the Elantra rated at 40 mpg Highway... The EPA determined that the car only got 38 mpg, 2 mpg short of the 40 mpg that Hyundai rated it. Hyundai was forced to reimburse Elantra buyers of those years for the difference based on the miles driven..

    The Elantra was a great car.. 100k miles in 3 years .. All I did was oil changes.. No issues..
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2020
  19. Aug 19, 2020 #19
    cmwade77

    cmwade77 Active Member

    I see, well several car companies have gotten into trouble for such things, it's one of the reasons we have Electrify America stations popping up all over.
     
  20. Oct 30, 2023 #20
    electriceddy

    electriceddy Moderator Staff Member

    Nanaimo BC, 2021 Kona Ultimate Built Sept 2020
    "It is said that one gallon of gasoline has the energy equivalent of 33.7 kWh of electricity. So, if an EV uses 33.7 kWh to drive 100 miles, its mpg equivalent would be 100 mpg."

    Compare that figure to a garden variety Canadian citizen:
    [​IMG]
    Driving an EV makes more sense. :D
     
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