How do the power brakes work in our Claritys?

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by KentuckyKen, Aug 5, 2018.

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  1. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    I think that's what Tesla does, too. Tesla uses standard off-the-shelf braking systems, designed for gasmobiles, so the master cylinder for the brake fluid has to have hydraulic pressure supplied by an electric motor, directly or indirectly. That's good because, as you say Sandroad, there is still braking power in the system in case of electrical failure in the car. At least, braking power until the pressure in the master cylinder bleeds off.

     
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  3. PHEV Newbie

    PHEV Newbie Well-Known Member

    Go down a hill after a full charge. There's no regen (according to the power meter) at all so you can feel what the friction brakes feel like unassisted. In fact, that's why I avoid giving my Clarity a full charge. For several miles, there's little to no regen so you're just wearing out your brakes (and the Li battery) prematurely.
     
  4. ab13

    ab13 Active Member

    The same style brake by wire system is in the NSX, so they've tuned it for very high performance operation. The parameters in the Clarity may be somewhat different.
     
  5. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member Subscriber

    There may be no regenerated electricity sent to the battery, but that doesn't mean only the brakes are being used to slow the car. This is a tired topic that I keep bringing up, but I'm still looking for the final answer so I'll bring it up again. It's all about the pseudo engine-braking that the Clarity needs to perform to go down a mountain without overusing its mechanical brakes.

    Page 434 of the Clarity Owners Manual says:
    Applying constant pressure to the brakes while going down a long hill can cause the brakes to heat up, resulting in a loss of stopping power. Therefore, when descending a long hill, release the accelerator pedal and allow regenerative braking to slow the vehicle down. To adjust the rate of deceleration, use the deceleration paddle selector. When the high voltage battery is recharging, regenerative braking may not be possible.

    So Honda's engineers know that even when the battery is fully charged, there must always be a way to slow the car down without staying on the brakes all the way down a mountain. However, the last sentence about when the high voltage battery is recharging doesn't make sense to me. The main purpose for regenerative braking is to recharge the high voltage battery! The secondary purpose is to provide braking that doesn't involve the mechanical brakes.

    When its battery is fully charged, the Accord Hybrid performs pseudo engine-braking by using the starter motor/generator to spin the engine, which for this purpose receives no fuel and the valves are kept closed. The engine provides the resistance to use up the torque the starter motor/generator is producing from the electricity regenerated by the traction motor serving as a generator.

    However when the Clarity PHEV's battery is fully charged and the driver begins to slow the car, it often starts its engine. The engine does use up a little power to get started, but not much and not for long.

    So I can see only one possibility that explains why the Clarity, unlike the Accord Hybrid, runs its engine to produce pseudo engine-braking. My big unconfirmed theory is that the Clarity uses the electricity coming from the traction motor to run the starter motor/generator in reverse. In this scheme, the engine is providing even more resistance to the starter motor/generator than if it was simply spinning without fuel and with its valves closed.

    If anyone has any better theories about how the Clarity performs pseudo engine-braking (or if AnthonyW can find a service bulletin with the actual answer), I'm all ears (er, eyes).
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
  6. KentuckyKen

    KentuckyKen Well-Known Member

    @insightman, based on all the docs @AnthonyW and others have shared, and all the information and real life experiences posted, I think that is the most plausible theory so far. And my hour meter is energized when this happens so it seems the engine is running not just spinning with no ignition/gas like the hybrid you mentioned. Wouldn’t want to bet the ranch on it but I think your horse (theory) is in the lead!

    Strangely enough, after noticing this happen to me from Feb to May, it has now stopped. I now just get the limited regen for about the first 5 miles or so during which time it gradually allows more regen and added regen with pedal but not the engine start I used to sometimes get.
    I do still get the very infrequent and short System Checks which are so quiet I only notice them when the HV range goes down a mile and I pop the hood to see the hour meter has incremented (or when it happens at very low speed I can barely hear it).
     
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