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Discussion in 'Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles' started by bwilson4web, Sep 30, 2020.

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  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    WARNING! WARNING!
    [​IMG]

    Source: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/hydrogen-boom-track-hit-11-000000053.html

    Editor OilPrice.com, Oilprice.com September 29, 2020
    ...
    Bank of America is the latest analyst to chime in with a bullish note.

    According to the giant investment bank, hydrogen could supply our vast energy needs, fuel our cars, heat our homes, and also help to fight climate change.
    ...
    Morgan Stanley has upgraded Plug Power Inc. (NASDAQ:pLUG) from Equal Weight to Overweight with a $14 price target after the leading fuel cell maker impressed during its investor day presentation. Morgan Stanley's Stephen Byrd believes green hydrogen will become economically viable quicker than investors appreciate saying Plug Power's deal with Apex Clean Energy to develop a green hydrogen network using wind power offers a chance to tap into "very low cost" renewable power and helps accelerate the shift to clean energy. Plug has a goal for over 50% of its hydrogen supplies to be generated from renewable resources by 2024.
    ...

    So now we know where Trevor Milton has wander off to. Seriously, this is nonsense.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  3. SouthernDude

    SouthernDude Active Member

    How is this a scam? Plug power is actually doing things. They have projects that they have delivered on and have projects in the pipeline.
     
  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Then you should invest. IMHO, you have plenty of investment money.

    Bob Wilson
     
  5. SouthernDude

    SouthernDude Active Member

    Well, I actually do own 5 shares of their stock. lol. I bought it on my Robinhood account that I just mess around with. It's actually my best performing stock.
     
  6. world citizen

    world citizen New Member

    So, bwislon4web, how do you suggest to replace everything that presently uses large diesel engines? Run ships on Lithium batteries?
     
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  8. gooki

    gooki Well-Known Member

    Hydrogen isn't the answer for ships. It's energy density is worse than batteries at approx 160w/kg when using steel storage containers.
     
  9. Recoil45

    Recoil45 Active Member

    I don’t thing this even needs to be a discussion point for another 50 years.


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  10. marshall

    marshall Well-Known Member

    Puget Sound Energy has built a large natural gas storage facility here. So it looks like a few will go natural gas.
     
  11. The more I learn about Hydrogen the more sense it makes for large transport vehicles that require a lot of energy to move. Turns out Hydrogen energy is 130X more dense to store than batteries. IE of 1kg of hydrogen is equal 130 kgs of battery stored energy.
    https://anonw.com/2019/05/09/how-much-energy-can-extracted-from-a-kilogram-of-hydrogen/
    And you can store vast quantities of hydrogen energy in bulk containers that can't even be imagined by battery storage today. And at negligent cost to the environment compared to electric battery production.
    https://energystorage.org/why-energy-storage/technologies/hydrogen-energy-storage/
    It could also be used as temporary storage of energy produced by inconsistent renewables such as solar and wind.

    And remember that hydrogen can be produced very cleanly by 100% renewables.
     
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  13. world citizen

    world citizen New Member

    Exactly, R P! Makes me wonder what planet the antis are from?
    Recoil45 wants to keep burning Diesel for another 50 years, wtf?.
     
  14. Recoil45

    Recoil45 Active Member

    Want?

    No, but you aren’t getting getting rid of any soon and it likely will be around a lot longer for certain applications. Not an anti, just being realistic.


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  15. SouthernDude

    SouthernDude Active Member

    Hydrogen has better potential for being seasonal storage. Maybe even decadal storage too. Many of the storage tanks I see have very low leakage rates.
     
  16. world citizen

    world citizen New Member

    HYDROGEN HAS ALMOST 3 TIMES THE ENERGY DENSITY OF GASOLINE!
     
  17. world citizen

    world citizen New Member

    WRONG! IT HAS 3 TIMES THE ENERGY DENSITY OF GASOLINE!!!
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2020
  18. SouthernDude

    SouthernDude Active Member

    > "Another advantage is hydrogen’s energy density. Diesel has an energy density of 45.5 megajoules per kilogram (MJ/kg), slightly lower than gasoline, which has an energy density of 45.8 MJ/kg. By contrast, hydrogen has an energy density of approximately 120 MJ/kg, almost three times more than diesel or gasoline. In electrical terms, the energy density of hydrogen is equal to 33.6 kWh of usable energy per kg, versus diesel which only holds about 12–14 kWh per kg. What this really means is that 1 kg of hydrogen, used in a fuel cell to power an electric motor, contains approximately the same energy as a gallon of diesel. "
    https://rmi.org/run-on-less-with-hydrogen-fuel-cells/

    Even Rocky Mountain Institute agrees with this. They're all experts right? lol
     
  19. world citizen

    world citizen New Member

  20. world citizen

    world citizen New Member

    Yes, Platinum is a Catalyst in all sorts of reactions, particularly in green Hydrogen generation and in fuel cells, as well as a Jewellery metal. It's particularly cheap at the moment. There is far less of it around than Gold and mining is limited.
    You could get an allocted or unallocated account with a bullion dealer and they hold the metals for you in their stock.
    I bought Palladium, (auto Catalytic converters) in 2008 and it went up about twelvefold, allowing me earlier retirement.

    You can check things out for yourself here: https://www.bullionbypost.eu
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2020
  21. gooki

    gooki Well-Known Member

    People don't realize you can't store hydrogen in a balloon. There's a significant (80x) weight penality for storing it long term.

    Cross posting from the other thread.

    Assuming 40% efficient fuel cell and hydrogens real energy density can be as low as 165 Wh/kg.

    With the maths above and the fact hydrogen generation takes 3x the energy input, does anyone believe it'll be cheaper than batteries?
     
  22. Recoil45

    Recoil45 Active Member

    Do do believe just one source can supply/store all the energy the world requires?

    I don’t. In fact, I bet fossil fuels continue to provide greater than 50% of our energy requirements for the life of anyone old enough to read this post.


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