Fossil Fuel Industry in Denial about Magic Numbers 7x and 10x

Discussion in 'General' started by 101101, Nov 22, 2018.

To remove this ad click here.

  1. 101101

    101101 Well-Known Member

    With a Tesla almost invariable the charge vs fuel savings will pan out to something like 7x less than the fueled equivalent. Could be a little work at times involved where someone gets storage and roof top solar to achieve it but that is how it is almost always going to work out on a cost per mile basis when all things are considered except where it gets even better with AV added to the EV and where fleets and subscription can give a 10x reduction on everything people spend on the whole automotive and fossil fuel stack. There is nothing controversial about this and Fred Lambert is showing paid shill type colors again on this in particular when he criticizes Tesla's fuels savings claims and tries to call the controversial on the basis of say Hawaii where Tesla is fine with averages where even in Hawaii the 7x is attainable with ones own roof top cells and storage. Its the strategic paid liars that are the worst kinds of shills as they try to mirror the obvious to build trust until they are paid for the strategic lie. These 7x and 10x numbers paint the fossil fuel industries' profit free future and future of nothing but red.

    As a response the fossil fuel industry thinks it can do things like lie and say that a 39 mile per gallon Toyota SUV is per mile competitive with a Model 3 on cost because US fossil fuel is subsidized down to $2.71 instead of $9 a liter in the UK which would be closer to the un-subsidized price everywhere and where they want to compare only to the price per mile on Tesla chargers in California where cost is unfortunately right now about 73% above the the average grid charge at home price in that state (and way above the time charge) or 216% of the US average or 325% above its apparent low point in Iowa. But that is grid energy, if you do it yourself you should be able to get the price down to the equivalent of 27cents to 38 cents a gallon or again 1/7th to 1/10th.

    But surprise, surprise BNEF is back to its function of bald faced black lies. In a article that notes that wind and solar are now the cheapest bulk electricity source globally and where it should be noted there are no bars anymore to 100% replacement of all energy by these sources, no hydro or geo needed... still BNEF did the article so they could lie there ever living arses off about one thing. They claim that 'cheap' NG made gas peaker plants cheaper than wind and solar in the US- this is a LIE that anyone who wasn't a chronic crack smoker could see through. Its only massive subsidies to that financial hostage taking industry meant to stop the derivatives bubble from popping that allows that kind of BS claim even on the surface. In truth its the result of a massive increase in subsidies and they still aren't competitive. Even with the crimes of the Trump admin they aren't competitive. Its something that desperately needs a Wikileaks transparency spot light and proper backlash. Its only crime and corruption that allows the picking of those losers. You can see where the Trump admin wants to abandon all emissions controls to make NG look somehow remotely credible (at exponential externality cost and putting humanity radically increased risk) but even if they do that none of this stuff will ever be competitive again and in truth it never was, never was even viable without massive unending ever increasing subsidies. But green can already stand on its own unsubsidized, beating fossil fuels subsidized to literal economy killing destabilizing level and where it will get cheaper with roof top and local storage than the cost of sending it over super conducting wire (where you generally lose more from the power pole to your home than sending power 1000 miles on SC line.) They also apparently wanted to lie about the cost competitiveness of fossil fuels in China.

    So their strategy is lie, lie, lie, lie. But they simply aren't cost competitive and never will be again and what they are doing now is trying to force people to buy their obsolete junk. Even if they had the Armco 70mpg hybrid junk no one is ever going to want that over EV because it ins't remotely as good and its toxic.

    Today China started the first mass production of solid state batteries. The company will do 100MW over the next year to scale to about a gigawatt in 3 years. These are 400 kh/kg cells that are suitable for automotive use. This lends credence to the idea that Sion power does have 500 kh/kg solutions ready to go- the Chinese company is also going to roll that out. Also a shot that should be heard around the world is Honda just introduced a no compromise no wierd mobile no damaged styling CUV in china that will get 210 miles on a charge full EV. Solid state 500 kh/kg would give you a 400lbs lighter Model 3 with 550 miles of range and 2 seconds 0-60 and make the pack much cheaper and make it air cooled. Electric cars will soon be half the price to cost to produce of gas cars.

    The more the fossil fuel industry tries to lie about its obsolesce ( on price in particular) the more a flood light will be shined on its terminal inferiority only further accelerating its demise. Right now no fossil fuel company is solvent- they've never been being completely dependent Walmart style on state subsidies for their profits and dividends (actually much worse than Walmart where most of its customers and employees are on cash aid but where it is still allowed to claim a profit and dividend- Exxon is much, much, much worse)

    Its as if humanity has been in a row boat in the middle of lake superior (a clean lake superior) and has been unable to lean over and drink but has had to pay a parasite rent seeker class based off of petrol for the water that it scoops out. No fossil fuel company on this planet has a future that isn't highly stacked radically in favor of total permanent bankruptcy- they are already insolvent in terms of assets and ability to stay afloat without massive subsidies. In their absence state run enterprises can cover the remaining 10% for mineral extraction. With transparency on their books and their subsidies none of them are even solvent and what they have is a massive debt and externality liability to society and they have already been paid off thousands of times over for any actual contribution. The VW CEO and now the Nissan CEO have been removed by the states and are incarcerated or facing incarceration- these aren't accidents just like Martin Shikrelli as a rarified purveyor of fossil fuel mineral stock (drugs) Tilerson was named in the new NY suit against Exxon.

    All things considered green will be 7x-10x cheeper like some kind of Moore's law until its free, its already better than hot fusion whereas talking about fossil fuels getting better is like talking about buggies getting better- it hit a floor a long, long time ago and it would take tech on the level of efficient conversion of energy into matter or gross macroscopic teleportation or released scalar tech to fix it sub threshold scarcity inducing aggregate inefficiency. No fossil fuel economy could compete against a green economy so its also a matter of survival for nations, continued use of fossil fuels is the gravest threat to their well being and every nation on the planet has agreed to put an end to fossil fuels. Which might be part of why Trump got called "S.A.'s *****" by a female member of congress yesterday.
    Electric motors are 7x more efficient than ICE and with fleet AV per Seba hit 10x cost/revenue reduction on all things fossil fuel and automotive.
  2. To remove this ad click here.

  3. DaleL

    DaleL Active Member

    "As a response the fossil fuel industry thinks it can do things like lie and say that a 39 mile per gallon Toyota SUV is per mile competitive with a Model 3 on cost because US fossil fuel is subsidized down to $2.71 instead of $9 a liter in the UK which would be closer to the un-subsidized price everywhere..."

    The correct comparison would be a top end Toyota Highlander hybrid (28 mpg, $43,000) versus a Tesla X (97 mpge, $97,000). The Toyota is not subsidized by the $7,500 federal tax credit or any state credits. The over $45,000 price difference is a good down payment on a house. It would also buy 15,000 gallons of gasoline at $3.00 per gallon; enough to drive 420,000 miles.

    Electric vehicles are great to drive. They are smooth, quiet and have great low speed response. Once manufactured, they pollute no more than the power plants that produce the electricity they use. Now that the weather is cooler, I really appreciate the instant climate control heat.

Share This Page