evse recommendations?

Discussion in 'Cooper SE' started by KeninFL, Jun 13, 2020.

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  1. Puppethead

    Puppethead Well-Known Member

    I always keep in mind if there was something like a house fire, what would the insurance company look at. If your setup isn't up to code and something horrible happened, it wouldn't go well.
     
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  3. Jenna

    Jenna New Member

    Ok so the other part I left out is that this is not MY house, it is a friend's house that I currently live in, but will be moving out by next year (buying a townhouse). So, seeing as the person I live with is 99.9 percent probably never going to get an electric vehicle, my thought is I will have the electrician install the extra outlet needed to plug in the Juicebox (outside, attached to the house) and use an extension because it will be temporary. (And pray nothing bad happens!) Ok, talk me out of it...go!
     
  4. F14Scott

    F14Scott Well-Known Member

    As long as you're going with an extension cord solution, you might consider having the electrician hard wire your EVSE in the garage (hopefully, right next to your indoor panel). You would then charge via extension cord (under or around the garage door, probably). When the time comes to move, pull the EVSE off the wall and replace it with the appropriate 240VAC outlet, totally doable by a novice.

    Advantages:
    Hard-wired EVSE does not require GFCI breaker, a $100 savings
    If the EVSE is located right next to the panel, minimum expense on cable and conduit
    Less loss from long cable run to the EVSE
    EVSE stays dry

    Or, you could just install a 240 outlet right next to the panel, but the GFCI comes into play, and sometimes the EVSE's internal GFCI and the panel's GFCI fight each other and trip.
     
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  5. MichaelC

    MichaelC Well-Known Member

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  6. Puppethead

    Puppethead Well-Known Member

    I really hope EVSE makers start offering GFCI-free products for those of us who live in areas where the latest NEC is followed, requiring GFCI on the outlets. This has to be an issue that will become more and more common.
     
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  8. Jenna

    Jenna New Member

    Main problem is there is no garage. Just a parking space in the backyard away from the house. Panel is in the basement.
     
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  9. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member Subscriber

    I purchased a charging cable extension from this guy in Tucson (TucsonEV) who has been making and selling EVSE extension cables, adapters, and accessories since 2010. I'd send him an email asking for his advice, telling him your EVSE will be mounted on an exterior wall and the distance from the EVSE to where your car's charging port will be when parked. EVSEs typically come standard with an 18-foot cable, with a 25-foot cable available for an additional cost. If you buy a long enough extension cable, you could save the additional cost of the 25-foot EVSE cable. However, after you move, you may wish you'd chosen 25-foot cable so you wouldn't need to keep using the extension cable.
     
  10. Jenna

    Jenna New Member

    Thanks so much for the info. I'm leaning towards getting the Juicebox which does come with a 25 foot cable so at least I'd have that when I do move, like you said. I wish I had started looking into all of this a little bit sooner! I honestly did not think my car was going to be coming so soon, the way the dealer was talking. But now it's already arrived in the US and is probably a few days away from showing up at the dealership. Not that I'm complaining! Just feel like I am scrambling a bit now I guess.
     
  11. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Many of us charged our first EVs on 120 Volts until we got our EVSE act together. Fortunately, the SE doesn't take forever to charge on 120 Volts. Of course, we want to see pictures when you get your SE.
     
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  13. polyphonic

    polyphonic Well-Known Member

    Depending on climate, and commute level 1 (standard 120v wall outlet) may work just fine. Having an electrician inspect your line and maybe replace an outlet is super cheap compared to a temporary L2 setup.
     
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  14. bldxyz

    bldxyz Well-Known Member

    I ran the experiment! It was fascinating.

    My meter shows somewhere around 0.5 Kw as a general baseline. I looked at it from time to time and generally saw things between 0.4 and 0.6.

    I set up to video the meter while I intentionally ran appliances to see what it would tell me. Unfortunately, the meter cycles through several readings (not always showing the live Kw figure), and it only shows the Kw signal three times a minute. I realize this means I may not be able to see some sort of peak. Let's discuss that later.

    During the first phase of the experiment, I ran:
    • Clothes Washer
    • Dryer
    • Dishwasher
    All those things may be running late at night, though I could reasonably avoid staring to charge until after laundry stops running. That said, the max Kw reading I saw during this phase was about 2-3 Kw.

    During the next phase, I did a bit of a stress test. In addition to the Clothes Washer, Dryer and Dishwasher, I added:
    • Two TVs and AV receivers
    • Microwave
    • Toaster Oven
    • One bathroom ventilation fan
    • A bunch of lights on around the house
    I cannot imagine this level of simultaneous consumption happening ever, let alone when I might be charging a car. But that said, the maximum value I observed was just a shade under 7 Kw. The one thing I didn't do was force my hot water boiler (which serves my heating system) to go on.

    Doing completely lame math: if the 7.4 Kw draw of the MINI Cooper is 31 Amps, then the 7 Kw max I saw would be about 29 Amps, for a total of 60 Amps. If a surge in electricity occurs for any one appliance, enough to throw it's own 20 Amp breaker, then we'd hit a max of 80 Amps for the Main, most likely less since we won't be charging the car, doing laundry, and cooking with the microwave and toaster oven all at the same time. (I have 100 Amp service for the whole house.)

    I suppose I should run this by an electrician, though.

    Anyone see a flaw in my experiment or logic?
     
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  15. Couldn't resist posting this amazing outdoor installation ,very cool indeed!
    [​IMG]
    :)
     
  16. F14Scott

    F14Scott Well-Known Member

    7400 Watts divided by 240 Volts is 31 Amps.
    7400 Watts divided by 120 Volts is 62 Amps.
    A lot of appliances you mentioned are at 120 Volts.

    So, I think your calculation might be low, as it assumes everything is at 240VAC.

    But, I'm not an electrician / I've never done a load Calc / I'm routinely full of crap / etc.

    What say the EE majors?
     
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  17. GetOffYourGas

    GetOffYourGas Well-Known Member

    "Contains Lead"
    They should have gotten the RoHS EVSE ;)
     
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  18. GetOffYourGas

    GetOffYourGas Well-Known Member

    In the US, 240V is simply two 120V legs, 180 degrees out of phase. If the house is wired properly, the 120V loads should be shared across those two legs. Ideally, the 62A of 120V load should be 31A on each leg, which would be the same as a single 31A load on a 240V line.

    However, reality is rarely ideal. If I had to wager a guess, the max unbalance would be something like 41A/21A. The higher leg gets added to the 31A / 240V load for a house load of 72A on one leg and 52A on the other.

    If that's all too confusing, then here's the bottom line:
    The WORST CASE of bldxyz's use case is 60A on one leg and 31A on the other (all 120V loads on a single leg)
    The BEST CASE is 45.5A on either leg, perfectly balanced.
    The REAL CASE is likely somewhere between those extremes.
     
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  19. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member Subscriber

    I knew there must be a secret reason why Tesla cars are so fast--they use electricity containing lead! Probably reduces the knocking at high electric compression ratios.
    upload_2021-2-26_9-23-41.png
     
  20. I take that a GFCI is the same as a ELCB ? it took me a while to figure out the lettering as I am a bit slow on the up take.
     
  21. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member Subscriber

    I've installed GFCI outlets for decades, but never heard of an ELCB. So I looked it up on Wikipedia. Evidently the two are not the same:

    An Earth-leakage circuit breaker (ELCB) is a safety device used in electrical installations with high Earth impedance to prevent shock. It detects small stray voltages on the metal enclosures of electrical equipment, and interrupts the circuit if a dangerous voltage is detected. Once widely used, more recent installations instead use residual-current devices (RCDs, RCCBs or GFCIs) which instead detect leakage current directly.
     
  22. bldxyz

    bldxyz Well-Known Member

    Ah, thank you!

    So, is it the case that the danger occurs when a single leg hits the max of 100 Amps? Meaning, we would not want to see more than 80 Amps or so on either leg?

    Can you recommend a way to think about the maximum?
     
  23. GetOffYourGas

    GetOffYourGas Well-Known Member

    Yes, you want to keep both legs below your 100A service. 80A for "continuous usage" (>3 hours). But from your measurements, I don't see a problem. You should be more than good unless you missed something major. What I pointed out just means you have even more overhead room than you thought.
     
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