EV Batteries

Discussion in 'General' started by Ilya, Sep 8, 2021.

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  1. Ilya

    Ilya New Member

    Hello all,

    First of all I want to say hello to everyone. I have been listening to the podcast for a few weeks now and becoming more interested in EV technology. I am what you guys call a "petrolhead", but since I started working in the battery science world I have become more interested in the electro-chemistry of the batteries.

    As a car enthusiast I have always tinkered with my petrol-mobiles, engine, ecu, boost, etc. But with EVs besides the computer that controls the car I see the batteries as the "beating heart of the car". As such, I want to understand and learn as much as I can about the science behind batteries as this very much matters for all people from end users to investors the cost vs performance of the current and future batteries.

    So I guess my question is , is there a podcast episode that I missed where you guys discuss the batteries in depth about new technologies such as Si nanowire anode, the new cathode materials, etc. I heard in a few episodes where you guys talk about things like Lithium mining from Salton sea, LG battery recall but not really talking about next gen batteries.
    I don't see a "Batteries" discussion forum or is this just not the place for it?

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  3. gooki

    gooki Active Member

    FWIW, there's so much battery break through news that never gets to the market because they can't overcome one of the key quadrants:

    Energy by weight
    Energy by volume
    Cycle life
    Mass manufacturing (low cost, manufacturable outside the lab)

    So until any press releases include this information rather than obscuring it or ignoring it, following battery tech is like going down thousands of rabbit holes.

    And then you have to watch out for the full on con jobs. Even Trevor Milton the con artist behind Nikola got suckered in by other battery tech con artists.
    Fastnf likes this.
  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    The battery, battery management, inverter, and motor are tightly integrated. But you have the option of better wheels, tires, weight, and aerodynamics. So I'm tuning my 2019 Model 3 to compensate for the expected battery degradation.

    Bob Wilson
  5. SouthernDude

    SouthernDude Active Member

    It is highly unlikely that there will be a modified battery market for EVs in the near future (or ever maybe). If you're curious, the better thing to do is just look at battery form factors, how they are wired in both series and parallel, and just basic metrics of storage. The rest of it is kind of irrelevant because nobody who likes to tinker with cars will be building batteries in their garages. The only modifications that can be realistically done to an EV is cosmetic or stuff with the tires/wheels.
  6. tomlo2000

    tomlo2000 New Member

    I bought a Kona electric in June and found that there is noise coming from the rear brake when I applied the brake, the service technician said that it is not a safety issue and can't be fixed. However, the sale has never disclose the problem to me before. Is there anyone has the same problem?
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  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    The Prius experience shows owner battery replacement is not that hard. There is even one 3d party replacement that uses modern D cells. We also see 'funny car' mods that transplant salvage EV drivetrains into classic bodies:
    • salvage parts - these are needed for experimentation
    • experiments - our species has curious people who are up to the task
    Homegrown 'gear heads' have figured out pretty much anything. Give our species credit for curiosity.

    Bob Wilson
    ericy likes this.
  9. AdrianC

    AdrianC New Member

    This was an interesting podcast episode about battery safety, a subject close to my heart as the owner of a recalled Bolt:

    InsideEVs - Electric Vehicle News / Battery Safety - TechTalk 4 with AVL Electrification (audioboom.com)

    Recent quote from Musk:

    Tesla (TSLA.O) Chief Executive Elon Musk took a jab at the GM-LG pouch cell technology in a recent tweet, writing that "probability of thermal runaway is dangerously high with large pouch cells. Tesla strongly recommends against their use." Tesla mainly uses cylindrical cells from several sources, including some made in China by LG.

    GM digs in with LG Corp to speed a fix for Bolt battery fires | Reuters

    Pouch type batteries are in the Kona, Bolt, ID4, Mach E...
  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    This 2019 YouTube does a comparison of cell, module, and pouch batteries:

    • cells - cheapest with mechanical shell per cell for strength and best dealing with cell isolation
    • modules - more expensive, customized to specific packs locking in supplier
    • pouch - most expensive and pack must deal with expansion and contraction during charge and discharge. The fewest number of cells means limited redundancy to deal with cell failure and locks in supplier
    Bob Wilson
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2021
    AdrianC likes this.
  11. AdrianC

    AdrianC New Member

    That was interesting, thanks for that.

    Though the expert doesn't know much about the Chevy Bolt.
    He says it was based on the Spark platform, it's not, it was a dedicated EV platform.
    He says it's only a four seater due to the battery size. No, it seats five. Mine does.
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