EQS is another uncompetitive gap filler to try to string people along

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by 101101, Apr 15, 2021.

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  1. 101101

    101101 Well-Known Member

    So we finally get the specs and the pictures and they are underwhelming to the point of why even bother driving one?

    It is missing a functional or real self-driving feature and Mercedes is out of time- they don't even have a viable path to one- nor does Lucid nor any other pretender

    Its top spec has less than half the power of a top Tesla S- that won't cut it. It takes more than 2x as long to get to 60mph. Will it take 2x as long to stop too?

    478 miles WLTP won't cut it, in real world it will be down by about 100 miles in range against a Tesla S.

    It has obviously compromised front impact safety because it lacks a frunk and isn't despite obviously false claims by MB a from the ground up electric- its still a pre 2008 (release of orginal tesla roadster) design in being a parts bin hybrid. And it will likely be down in storage space and/or convenience as well. It also says Mercedes still isn't ready because this isn't the from the ground up vehicle they say it is and they are still very behind- and they are looking quite dishonest over this- why lie?

    Notice they copied the Tesla S door handles but Tesla has moved on with that removing the handles completely with the Cybertruck.
    Its exterior styling doesn't cut it, the two tone doesn't say Maybach it says more chrome on one of Cadillac's glory days wannabe entrants.

    Those rims style wise look cheap and blingy which is dumb on a Mercedes- chintzy is not the look their customers want. Surely there will be other options but will they be ugly too?

    The BMW guppy like intakes are ugly and unnecessary- equivocating on ICE signaling is just plain dumb!

    The interior is ok but that Homer Simpson bald head boob nipple knob in the middle of the steering wheel is weird and the tiny chicklet keys around it look plasticky and cheap and failure prone and the whole plastic expanse looks like a finger print magnet. Same with turbine vents- retro is so wrong here. Worse it looks like MB trying to copy a Cadilac interior or moving down scale to go electric- not good and totally reactionary against Tesla. The blind influenced by the blind.

    Center console pass through and seat pattern is nice.

    If they want to pull this off the price for top model needs to be well under 70k- surprised if market doesn't force that underwater price on them- they surely won't be profitable from the start like they claim and they can't run on prestige and good will if they lost those which their brand has. If they don't get the top price under 70k they are going down hill fast bacause the lowest priced Tesla S is much better than the top EQS. If they can't do glitz (and this looks too cheep for that) then they have to do value. Mercedes S class looks set to become as irrelevant as the BMW 3 series. I predict MB won't even do the phony review ad infomercials for this because just like BMW with its defunct 3 series its so comparatively categorically bad it can't stand the light of even the most bought and paid for of comparison fake reviews. Not even with throughly discredited CR. They will be relying mainly on people too senile to continue to perceive a difference who are cruising along in auto purchase mode- a fast expiring breed that ironically most needs actual self driving. Gates will probably park one next to his Taycan.

    It reminds me of the Chrysler K car when they tried to put the Mitsubishi engine in the Imperial in a fire prone way. They are trying to pawn off a roundish C class as a S class- won't work their own customers will know this. Suspect its real competitor is the Model 3 Performance and they need to price it accordingly. MP3 is more car for probably half the price. Will space for 1 extra person and a bit more leg and shoulder room be worth the difference? Doesn't look like its easy to see out that back window- less of an issue if they actually had self driving- does it even have a functional digital rear view?

    Now there is no question this vehicle is better than the current S class because that's a slow dirty lard-asserous-rex but the current ICE S class is so obsolete that it is not remotely good enough to just be better than that obsolescence. Mercedes has to survive this decade without going moribund so many times it can't be revived. It needs to dump its lead weight hydrogen truck divison asap as a way of getting the stupid people out of the company. Needs to stop lying too- if its not an all new platform and won't be profitable from the start don't say it will be and don't say stupid things like MB ICE is a engine of profit when everyone knows its an albatross.

    It is not a total loss, it is probably better than whatever BMW will get around to offering in 2025 if BMW isn't permanently obviously unrecoverably bankrupt by then. But germans have to up their game. Taycan comes and it has a damn throw back transmission- anathema, new VWs and MB EQS come and they lack a critical safety feature for front impact (frunk) in a way that cannot be hidden or denied because all they have are parts bin chimeras but worse they can't own up to it.

    Makes me wonder about Ford its F150 project is a half arsed joke in a similar vein and they are only planning on selling a compliance number of electric Mustangs SUVs (which somehow Tesla clearly helped them with- note it has a frunk and doesn't have a transmission) so is Ford if its not buying credits from Tesla having to pay the fines? So hilarious for the artist formerly known as Prince as 'the only US automaker to stand with CA CARB' to have to pay the fine or buy credits from Tesla- which is it? Ford's dumb plan to make their F150 seem more competitive is to be able to allow the customer to expand it it back into an ICE with a truck bed space taking turbine or generator but to otherwise do nothing but try to chimera hybrid parts bin he F150- Tesla will put them out of business.

    For the shills that will whine about categories- is it MB? Tesla? BMW? Cadillac? Stellantis? Ford? No, its general to start with.
     
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  3. 101101

    101101 Well-Known Member

    Mercedes just digs its hole deeper. Now they are saying it doesn't have a frunk because it has a air cleaner? Teslas have the "bioweapon defense" air cleaner and they still have a frunk. So why is that space that should be filled with nothing or at times temporarily filled with light weight consumer good or similar storage items instead filled with industrial metal car components- the kind that don't act like a pneumatic cushion in a front end collision but are more likely to end up in the cabin with you in a wreck crushing your legs or surely reducing crash safety even if not a fully non compressible engine block? One reason: Mercedes is full of sht on the state of this car's engineering. Another reason this car isn't better or Mercedes wasn't better able to manifest the tech timely (even Ford surely with some Tesla help did a better job of faking it) was because they still think they will be selling ICE vehicles for a while longer. They are in for a super rude awakening. They certainly worried if they made it a better car than it is their ICE stuff would have to be written off immediately. But they won't do too well this year and they aren't going to make it through 2023 with ICE its just not happening. Did they buy themselves any time all at all with this punt? I don't think so.
     
  4. 101101

    101101 Well-Known Member

    Watched some more on his vehicle. Personally I recognize your really have to drive to know because somethings are more than the sum of their parts so this is arm chair of course but:

    Nice 4 wheel steering but bad feature based price lock out- that stuff makes people angry- Tesla generally does it right but crippleware is definitely not cool because in a kind of real and intuitive sense people already paid for it and it feels dirty like gouging and BMW style subscriptions to features like lights that you already paid for is for total idiots- BMW always looks down its nose at its customers like they tools and they don't forget- yes I know Tesla just did it for heated seats but its not a subscription like BMW but its still wrong!
    Nice self opening and closing doors- but not necessary and seem lazy and presumptuous even if no slamming of the doors.
    Nice center screen
    Its quiet
    Good cd
    Good trunk space
    Some of the rim selections are nice and don't look cheap but not all.
    Back looks a bit like a Ford Taurus but nice

    but its:
    Missing 70 mph top speed- front impact again or efficiency of motors and cheaper tires?
    Little slower on charging relative to Tesla
    Artificial motor sounds are silly- again people don't really give a sht about ICE once they go electric

    I think the refreshed Tesla S will likely have:
    Self driving and EQS simply won't (every company besides Tesla has vaporware)
    Radically better performance in acceleration, top speed, handling and braking
    More comfortable steering even if at low speed its possible the EQS has better turn radius from 4 wheel steering.
    Better seats
    Better paint
    Better voice control
    A lot safer even in a wreck- less likely to get into one in the first place
    Quicker and better charging
    Better charging prices
    Much better charging availability
    Better ergonomics for view especially rearward with digital rear view mirror
    Better software
    A lot easier to use and understand- way too many switches in EQS
    Better updates
    Will be in same range for quiet
    Fit and finish on Tesla will be close but eventually better then MB- people don't expect Mercedes to be able to improve
    its image has been declining for various reasons for so long
    Think the Tesla will be a lot more reliable the MB looks to have too much break-ware built in probably to keep dealers happy.
    Tesla will hold its value much better
    Tesla has higher status and image value and much better virtue signaling
    Tesla will cost a lot less on maintenance
    Tesla will be a radically better value up front and long term
    Tesla will be cheaper to insure despite higher performance because of Tesla self insurance
    No lame dealers to have to mess with

    Think I've come up with a more apt comparison than the K car. Imagine the best BMW 7 Series ever made- not sure what that would be, but suspect it might be a 750iL from the late 80s and suppose it goes up against one a revolutionary Lincoln Town car from the same period- the one with he double body they used to make Limos out of- I started one of those many times while it was running because I actually thought i was off and even that didn't make much bark- and the car had tamed the wallowy ride. That Lincoln was a nice car at the time especially for Ford. They sold a lot of them. It was kind of a tank. But it was nothing like that 750iL which was true art. Now that town car may have sold 2x or more as many as BMW sold of those 7 series. But the 7 series then likely cost 2x or more as much as the Town car. If you don't like that comparison use the Mercedes late 80s W body 560 SEL an awesome car I spent some time in. It too cost at least 2x as much as the Lincoln and very likely sold less but it was still very popular. Now imagine that the Lincoln costs 2x what those German cars cost then. Back then those German cars in top spec could run 80-90k and today that would be 160-180k and they felt like it. The Lincoln topped out a 30K or 60K today. So a Lincoln town car then for 180K (?) or 360k today? That is what the EQS is, a big 3 luxo barge for 2x the price of some of the best German sedans ever made represented by the refreshed Tesla S. If they sell the EQS for half what they are intending to sell it for they have a chance but they won't even make a profit for it at 140K today. But at least they are not at the late Sears stage like Ford.

    Just noticed that Redlich did a piece on Scorpian Capital calling out Quantumscape for being a scam. The legitimizing factor for
    for Quantum Scape was JB Straubel on the board but Gate's involvement was a serious red flag and now its looking like that red flag was right. Redlich didn't render an opion but was skeptical and felt it sounding a bit like Lucid. I felt Nikola- Cruz- Lucid were cut from the same cloth and now it appears Lordstown has some of the same stuff going on. To me the common denominator is here is GM. I was least skeptical of Lordstown which I knew still had GM in the mix. Other people don't see the GM in Lucid but I smell it. As for cruise its CEO has apparently come across as quite convincing for people but every time GM is doubted on self driving for being total bs then here is this temporally proximate claim that someone is spending money buying into Cruz or CR claims its self driving works. Remember when GM claimed 4 years ago that its bolts dressed in Frankenstein garb were doing what FSD beta is doing now in places like SF. Imagine Bolts from 4 years ago driving SF streets unaided- Mary Bara attested but we all know that was just Waymo and we know how that turned out. Have to be super skeptical about GM- as Forbes said they have run apparently (long term it seems) on being structurally bankrupt- they are another subsidized corporate welfare case like Walmart. Now Walmart is doing some things with Tesla trucks but now suddenly Walmart has contributed a few billion or something to Cruz- why (?) its GM it will fail.
     
  5. There are many people that care more about the brand rather than the features, as long as they are modern rather than cutting edge. Frunk, 0-60 time, stopping distance, etc. aren't really a factor for those people.

    There isn't really a point in buying an ICE car of similar size and class to the Model Y yet people will buy BMW X4s and Mercedes GLE coupes. Same for the ID.4 and Mach E.

    When more EVs release, lots of people will stick to their preferred brand. I know more people that would rather keep buying the same brand than those who simply chose the one with better specs.

    Mercedes EQS class will give those loyal to Mercedes an option to switch to an EV. I know one coworker that was considering an ICE Ford Mustang until the Mach E reveal despite Tesla having better specs so this method works. May not make sense to you but it's how some people are.
     
  6. 101101

    101101 Well-Known Member

    The new thing from the shills in the comments on the EQS articles is it doesn't have a frunk because its cab forward design ala the 1990s Chrysler 300 to make forward visibility better. Ah nope it is not! It has a long hood line that just a bunch of recycled ICE parts bin heavy metal under the hood sans a block and transaxle and it shows. It is like when Munro was puzzling over all the road hugging steel in a hood on the ID4 for a system that would designed to lessen pedestrian head injury. Why use heavy steel in an electric? Is puzzling when it had a bunch of legacy ICE parts bin junk under the hood (but VW is more honest about that) but my but my guess is just weight distribution as an after though way up on high- raising the center of gravity. But again the Tesla does air cleaner and frunk and is cab forward enough especially with the Model 3 that you can't see the nose- EQS has a long hood so this isn't because its cab forward it is because its still got ICE parts bin stuff and is not a real effort yet.

    I was wrong about the back of the EQS, was thinking of a more modern Ford Taurus from the side but eeek it looks like the one from the back dead on that tanked the Taurus line

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    more modern Taurus from the side:

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    See the guppy intakes.. hmm

    While Diess was rightly worried about silicon valley reducing VW to just a commodity box maker, just a coach maker just a rolling couch maker just a furniture maker just a vitamin label designer just a supervisor of outsourced contract with pride in not invented here- Musk was talking about the speed of innovation as the differentiator and literally building the machine that makes the machine down to the raw material and literally the software and robots- while Musk was doing all that MB has been busy becoming Lincoln. But toss the Daimler name, toss the Benz name, toss the Maybach name and toss the stupid hydrogen truck group- that much is going in the right direction. Mercedes needs Bruno Sacco back - they can't just get random people from Ford, Mazda and Chrysler.
     
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  8. 101101

    101101 Well-Known Member

    Guess the images of the Ford Contour and older 2000 and newer Taurus and images of Lincoln MKS older and newer didn't come through but just do a google search and laugh. Guess we can't post images like before after
     

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