Ending time-based billing from EVGo, Electrify America, etc.

Discussion in 'Hyundai Kona Electric' started by Jgood, Dec 31, 2019.

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  1. I just contacted my state senator and representative in Massachusetts to inform them of the unfair practice of billing EV drivers by time and not kwh. It should surprise me (but it doesn't) that they did not know that this was how Mass. EV drivers were being charged and they agreed that it's not okay. They indicated that there is a bill being written now that addresses environmental issues and proposals for 2020 and that they would push for kwh billing to address the problem in that MA law bill. Honestly I was surprised that they reacted as they did. I guess most reasonable people will agree that time-based billing is too variable and therefore unfair to consumers. California just banned time based billing on Dec 16 so the momentum is now to push to ban it nationwide. If you're in the US and your state allows time-based billing perhaps you should write to your STATE representatives first...since states regulate their own electric companies. The federal government could step in, and regulate electricity for cars as fuel...but I don't think they will unless there are documented unfair practices in certain states that remain unfixed over a course of years. If you'd like to send a letter feel free to adapt the one I sent. I've pasted it below.


    I recently decided to “put my money where my mouth is” by purchasing a Hyundai Kona Electric car. It’s a wonderful little car that I highly recommend. However, I can’t say much in support of the EV charging infrastructure in Massachusetts or the states regulation of it.

    To illustrate the problem quickly let me provide an example. If I pull into a gas station to purchase “fuel” for my gasoline vehicle, the state requires that I, the consumer, be guaranteed a fair measurement of that fuel—and that a gallon of fuel will be accurately dispensed. The fuel is measured as a quantity of volume. The electrical industry also has a measurement of volume for electricity called a kilowatt-hour. Basically it’s 1000 watts of energy flowing for a time period of 1-hour. It is a precise measurement of energy in the same way as a gallon of gasoline provides a set amount of energy.

    The PROBLEM however, is that Massachusetts does not allow or require that independent companies or utilities to sell power to electric vehicles via charging stations by kilowatt-hours. In Massachusetts electric car drivers are charged by the TIME they need to charge their vehicles. This means that a car that can accept a high-speed DC charge on the Mass pike could refuel in 40 to 50 minutes and be charged for the TIME they sit attached to the charger. Conversely a different car that cannot accept that same high speed charge could take twice as long and receive far LESS energy in total—yet be charged twice as much as the other car.

    This is further complicated by the fact that the chargers currently available all have different outputs. Some of them can charge at very high outputs, while others cannot. And even high output chargers will often times reduce their output due to peak demand times, cold weather, software errors, etc., all of which are beyond the control of the consumer. So, even a Tesla owner, whose car is capable of extremely high speed charging could end up paying 2, 3, even 4 times the equivalent cost of gasoline because they are being charged by TIME and not VOLUME (kilowatt hours).

    If you speak with anyone who owns an electric car they will confirm that TIME-based charging is hugely anti-consumer, and a significant obstacle to adopting electric vehicles to help offset climate change. At present 30 states now allow electric vehicle chargers to accept payment based on kilowatt-hours instead of TIME. Massachusetts needs to change its laws and not only allow this, but require it. Consumers will not switch to electric vehicles knowing that they are going to be unfairly overcharged for inconsistent quantities of energy to power their cars.

    We long ago moved past the unfair practices of the petroleum industry bilking consumers. It’s time to do the same thing for the electric power companies and utilities who are literally abusing their consumers because they are allowed to by Massachusetts laws. Time-based charging for electricity is an old-fashioned structure that is not appropriate for our changing world. A kilowatt-hour is no less a “volume” of energy than a gallon of fuel oil. Our home energy usage is charged by the kilowattt-hour…so why are our vehicles NOT?

    If we, as a state and nation are truly committed to addressing needed environmental changes—this is a problem that can be easily fixed. I ask that you take steps to begin the process.
     
    BC-Doc, nigels, Ev050 and 2 others like this.
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  3. We also bought a 2019 Hyundai Kona Electric back in March, shipped it to Florida. For the most part we charge at home and have whole house solar, so basically free. We were unpleasantly surprised as you, when traveling, and getting billed by the minute, regardless to kWh consumed. In particular Electrify America puts the Kona EV and the Niro EV in a higher per minute tier rate, making matters worse. See the many industy reporting on this. Yet, E.A stll refuses to even acknowledge any issue.
    https://www.torquenews.com/7893/3-things-electrify-america-needs-fix-2020-starting-hyundai-kona-electric-and-kia-niro-ev-charging
     
  4. SkookumPete

    SkookumPete Well-Known Member

    Thst's an excellent and thought-ptovoking letter. Petro-Csnada have said their new stations will be time-based. I hope this doesn't mean the model you write about, which seems to be paid parking during which you get whatever fuel you can. I can see the need for paid idle time, but the energy itself should be sold to everyone at the same price.
     
    electriceddy likes this.
  5. We wont have the same problem of DC cold charging as the rest of Canada, but it may be some time before any legislation is passed as we are always behind EV friendly States such as California.
     
  6. Mywifeskona

    Mywifeskona New Member

    TOU charging in California supposedly ended today.
     
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  8. FloridaSun

    FloridaSun Well-Known Member

    Checked the EA app for California chargers and it still shows per minute rates.
     
  9. ITown

    ITown Active Member

    I was expecting the change to take effect today, but I just checked the text of the regulation here:
    https://www.cdfa.ca.gov/dms/pdfs/regulations/EVSE-FinalText.pdf

    "A.1.2. Effective Dates for DC EVSE. – All DC EVSE used for commercial purposes shall comply with all requirements of this article in accordance with the following:
    (a)All DC EVSE installed prior to January 1, 2023, shall comply with the requirements of this article by January 1, 2033.
    (b)All DC EVSE installed on or after January 1, 2023, shall comply with the requirements of this article upon installation."

    In other words, this regulation doesn't truly take effect until 2023, if I'm reading it right. :(
     
  10. FloridaSun

    FloridaSun Well-Known Member

    It says 2033 for existing EVSE's..
     
  11. hobbit

    hobbit Well-Known Member

    "2033" has to be a typo.

    Given what we've seen recently I expect EA et al will cling desperately
    to time-based as a doomed profit center as long as they possibly can.
    It wouldn't surprise me if the EVSE firmware already supports kWh
    billing and all they'd need to do is change a couple of operation flags
    to be energy-based *right now*.

    _H*
     
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  13. FloridaSun

    FloridaSun Well-Known Member

    Changing to kwh pricing would be easy. They already display the kwh dispensed. All they need is to update the software to multiply the kwh by the rate. I work in IT (Software engineer) and I doubt that this would be a huge change for them
     
  14. Surprisingly weak legislation considering from CA.

    We are planning a road trip down to AZ in March. At this time, looks like we will be driving our ICE car (cheaper). My son is taking their Tesla there at the same time, so we will be able to compare costs.
     
  15. interestedinEV

    interestedinEV Well-Known Member

    It does not look like a typo to me. I looked around. They are giving owners and network time to switch, which is needed and reasonable, but the time limit is excessive. But here is the catch, let us say EA has a charger installed on Jan 2nd 2023, a mile away from an older charger. In theory they can charge by time in the old charger and Kwh in the new charger. This will cause too much confusion, so are unlikely to do it.

    So I think large networks will switch on or before Jan 1st 2023 (it is not going to be immediate). One off independent chargers or those in smaller institutions can continue for 10 more years. But I think they will be squeezed out before that.

    Lobbying clearly has played a part.

    Yes, I think help is on the way but it is still years away unless public pressure forces a quicker change.
    upload_2020-1-2_8-50-26.png

    upload_2020-1-2_8-53-46.png
     
    ITown likes this.

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