Elon Musk now bullying short sellers and all and every critic

Discussion in 'General' started by TeslaInvestors, Jul 23, 2018.

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  1. David Green

    David Green Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I think this earnings call is going to be a tough one... the questions are going to be tough with most analysts trying to create a soundbite, and I also think Tesla is going to have to carefully report everything with the SEC, and a growing mountain of attorneys looking on, ready to pounce on the slightest 1/2 truth. This 10Q is going to be an exceptionally careful prepared document. It will be interesting, I think Tesla's financial situation is going to look much more precarious this qtr. Supercharger construction is grinding to a halt, and GF1 construction is stopped, all signs of weak cash flow.

    As for the GF thing... haha! Nothing more I can say.
     
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  3. TeslaInvestors

    TeslaInvestors Active Member

    That picture was posted and stayed on at least 5 hours. The replies were 95% pleads to delete the tweet.
    It wasn't enough for Elon to throw the weight of his billions to silence a critic; he had to also go and try to insult him further by responding to an anonymous Muskbro, who goes by Lycanthrope.
    I'm not sure if Montana Skeptic can file slander or something on this. But the negative image Elon is creating for the company will make it hard for many decent people to be associated with the brand.

    Today I see that it is getting some bad headlines already on yahoo finance, and has gone mainstream.
    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/elon-musk-finally-deletes-hannah-214800721.html
    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/elon-musk-allegedly-calls-tesla-183225944.html

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/elon-musk-makes-tesla-inc-tsla-stock-volatile-100000500.html
    Elon Musk Makes Tesla Inc (TSLA) Stock a Volatile Bet
    [​IMG]
    Ellen Chang
    Electric automaker Tesla Inc (Nasdaq: TSLA) faces countless challenges as it fails to meet production deadlines, burns through cash and accrues debt at an alarming rate while its infamous CEO Elon Musk thwarts convention and conducts his battles on Twitter, resulting in extreme volatility in its share price.

    (Underlining mine.)

    It doesn't help that he has already declared war against mainstream media with his pravduh idea, and painted them all in black.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2018
  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Actually I'm thinking about converting some of my 401k into Tesla stock. The Tesla skeptics have led me to do an unplanned, detailed analysis of Tesla and it looks like an excellent opportunity.

    The long range Model 3 is a solid vehicle that can meet my cross country range and efficiency. The company appears to be on solid financial footing with hard earned infrastructure. Best of all, Elon Musk is my kind of engineer (like Steve Jobs before him.)

    Bob Wilson
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2018
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  5. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    Says the only guy who ever agrees with the Tesla Death Cultist posts made by "TeslaInsiders", and vice versa. Both of you are obviously using the same Talking Points list from the Tesla Death Cultist playbook.

    Tesla Death Cultists: Setting new standards for hypocrisy daily!

     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2018
  6. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    I am often amazed at the Bizarro interpretation of reality shown in Tesla Death Cultist comments. Sometimes it literally takes me a minute or so to figure out how they have managed to distort reality in their minds sufficient to see something in a manner so utterly contrary to reality as we know it. As I often describe it: A Bizarro viewpoint!

    Case in point: The attitude on display in the above comment, in which it's suggested that "Montana Skeptic" might have cause to sue Elon Musk! In the real world, it would very much be the reverse.

    After Wall Street Journal reporter Dan Neil "dared" to write a positive review of the Model 3, he got bullied and hounded so much on social media by Tesla Death Cultists that he deleted his Twitter account. I think every reasonable and responsible person should be shouting "THANK YOU, ELON!" to the high heavens, for pulling some strings to force one of the bullies, one of the biggest, most high-profile Tesla Death Cultists out there -- "Montana Skeptic" -- to delete his Twitter account. "Montana Skeptic" is, of course, one of those who bullied Dan Neil.

    Sometimes there is justice in the world. Go, Elon!
    :) :) :)

     
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  8. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    On the subject of Elon Musk pulling strings to -- HALLELUJAH!! -- force high-profile Tesla Death Cultist and social media bully "Montana Skeptic" to delete his Twitter account, Clean Technica writer Zachary Shahan had a lot to say, in his very recent article "Tesla Shorts Are Scared, Exposed, & Desperate — Memo To Media: Don’t Be Duped"; see the excerpt below.

    Also interesting that Mark B. Spiegel, another high profile long-term Tesla Death Cultist -- one who actually used to post to InsideEVs comments before he got kicked off for (if I recall correctly) blatantly promoting (and linking to) his own short-seller Seeking Alpha blog posts -- put his oar in on Twitter, in rushing to the defense of one of his fellow Tesla Death Cultists, as reported below.

    Tesla shorts and multi-year critics, on the other hand, seem to be a different breed. They either have a stubborn but genuine logical bias for some reason or another and have not learned to let go of it, or they know they are wrong and spout misinformation to deceive people.

    We’ve had a couple of good pieces on the possibility that Jim Chanos, perhaps Tesla’s most influential short seller and critic, fits into the latter camp. Another longtime, prominent critic on investment channels goes by the name Montana Skeptic. It has been reported by sleuths on Twitter (unconfirmed by me or others in the press) that he’s managing director at The Stewart J. Rahr Foundation and has invested heavily in the oil industry in that role. According to the reports, when his activity was revealed to his billionaire boss, he was told to cut it out and get off of Twitter.

    A week ago @shortshorterhmm exposed @MontanaSkeptic1, a fierce Tesla critic, as Larry Fossi – managing director of The Stewart J. Rahr Foundation. Rahr heavily invested in oil. Today Larry was forced by his boss to close his Twitter account. #Transparency $TSLA $TSLAQ

    — Tesla Bull ?? (@TeslaBull) July 23, 2018

    Does Montana do Stewart's bidding in his quest to short Tesla, or has he gone rogue? pic.twitter.com/VdWolVFY0D

    — whowearsshortshorts (@shortshorterhmm) July 14, 2018

    For those of you who missed it, I present you with your Montana Skeptic pic.twitter.com/8ivlSvD4ej

    — whowearsshortshorts (@shortshorterhmm) July 15, 2018

    Anyone wonder why @MontanaSkeptic1 is so interested in @Tesla failing? Could it be that his livelihood depends on the success of oil? pic.twitter.com/JxY1mres5d

    — whowearsshortshorts (@shortshorterhmm) July 12, 2018

    One of our findings indicates that the person posting as Montana Skeptic is managing a company that is funding deployment of Oil Platforms. Just one of the recent contracts he personally signed was for $60M+ @Tesla $TSLA $TSLAQ pic.twitter.com/0QhrzlOCfH

    — Montana Skeptic Dossier (@SkepticMontana) June 8, 2018

    Two of Montana Skeptic’s most prominent Tesla-trolling colleagues seemed to confirm this:

    Guys – I'm beside myself & before you ask, this is NOT a joke – I just got off the phone with Montana Skeptic. He told me that he voluntarily deleted his Twitter account after Elon Musk personally called his boss to complain. I asked for Montana's permission to Tweet this. $TSLA

    — Quoth the Raven (@QTRResearch) July 23, 2018

    Okay, I didn't want to go there but @QTRResearch did and I can corroborate it: Musk called his boss and asked him to make Montana stop writing about $TSLA. Now we REALLY know where this is going.

    — Mark B. Spiegel (@markbspiegel) July 23, 2018

    Is it odd that someone who has managed an enormous amount of money in the oil industry has been trolling Tesla for years? Is it odd that someone invested in the oil industry has been shorting Tesla and doubling down on his criticisms of the company even as previous claims and projects were proven wrong?

    Before going further, based on my own online discussions with all three of these people, I wouldn’t take any statement on face value. I’ve seen far too much twisting of the facts and what seemed like outright lies to believe anything they claim without actual proof. But whether all of this is true, it’s interesting that one of the top “Tesla trolls,” one of the most outspoken Tesla shorts, has shut down his Twitter account and may also be dropping his Seeking Alpha activity. (If he was told to get off of Twitter, one would think he was also told to get off of Seeking Alpha.)

     
  9. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    Yet another of the Tesla Death Cult's talking points.

    This would fit into category #2 on Zachary Shahan's handy-dandy list of the seven most common Tesla Death Cult talking point FUD claims (my terms, not his). Thanks, Zack! :)

    2. Tesla’s finances — mass production vs. ramping up: Now, you could understand all of that but still think that Tesla’s screwed financially. All you have to believe is that the cost to produce a Model 3 is more than the cost Tesla is selling it for. Aside from the fact that pricing your product below the cost to produce it seems highly illogical, we’ve also seen independent reports claiming the cost of a Model 3 is around $28,000. With the base model scheduled for $35,000 and current options sitting at $49,000 and up, it looks like Tesla is making a lot of money on each car sold.

    That also means that with each vehicle sold, Tesla is able to cover more of its initial machinery investment costs, R&D costs, and debt. That would explain why Musk celebrates higher production rates rather than dropping us a frowny face because of all the extra money Tesla is “losing” from producing so many cars.

    We’ve gone from ~1000 S/X deliveries per week in US last year to ~6000 S/3/X. It’s like hitting a square wave.​

    — Elon Musk (@elonmusk) July 23, 2018
    Regarding the surprising volume seen lately, of Tesla Death Cult posts from "David Green", I think that #7 on Zack's list is also relevant:

    7. Tesla shorts are scared, exposed, desperate: With a warning that Tesla is on the verge of showing a profit, and previous indication that Tesla needs to produce just 5,000 Model 3 per week to get into the black, Tesla short sellers and foes who have long expected Tesla to collapse can largely see that the stock price could surge soon. If that starts to happen, other short sellers could bail and just decided to take a loss on their bets. Given that TSLA has been the most shorted stock on the market recently, that could mean a historic “short squeeze.”

    It appears that some short sellers are trying to push the price down to a certain level to exit with a gain or a slight loss. Others may be holding out hope that with enough negative news and a little “luck” on the Tesla production side of things, the company could run into a financial death spiral and they could finally get their dream of Tesla collapsing. Others may have honestly not examined the numbers carefully and picked up the wrong, pessimistic narrative.

     
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  10. David Green

    David Green Well-Known Member

    I wish you good luck in that investment... Elon though is nothing like Steve Jobs, as Mr Jobs was a nitpicky detail guy with tremendous attention to detail. Steve also had the EQ to match his IQ, and even though he was an *** behind the scenes, when in the front of the house he knew how to take criticism... Without crying...

     
  11. David Green

    David Green Well-Known Member

     
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  13. David Green

    David Green Well-Known Member

    I think you are exactly right.... Elon's actions are hurting the business case for Tesla as he is slowly turning off more and more people. Tesla fans are also creating damage with their brash misconception of where Tesla stands in the world.
     
  14. David Green

    David Green Well-Known Member

    Zach is certainly not a financial whiz...
     
  15. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    He certainly knows much more about Tesla's finances than I do!

    And compared to Tesla Death Cultists like you, he's a regular wizard.

    [​IMG]

     
  16. David Green

    David Green Well-Known Member

    Well, lets look closer how Tesla has performed over the last 5 years in July 25-28 trades, compared to Boeing, and the Nasdaq Index

    Today 297.40
    2017 335.07
    2016 234.79
    2015 265.41
    2014 223.57
    2013 233.27

    BA over the same timeline

    Today 361.51
    2017 241.27
    2016 133.66
    2015 146.84
    2014 123.21
    2013 105.60

    Nasdaq Index

    Today 7820.48
    2017 6374.68
    2016 5162.13
    2015 5088.63
    2014 4449.56
    2013 3479.38

    Brother, you do not have to be a rocket scientist to say "a rising tide lifts all boats", which is usually the case, but in Tesla's case not even the rising tide has been able to lift all that lead weight.
     
  17. TeslaInvestors

    TeslaInvestors Active Member

    I learn something new and dark everyday about the Tesla gang! Fred Freddie of electrek, who is now Elon's mouthpiece and 'brother', has some interesting history!
    Then this Freddie boy goes and writes that Montana Skeptic is a bad troll!

    https://www.thestreet.com/technology/elon-musk-schoolyard-taunts-in-war-against-tesla-short-sellers-14664407
     
  18. David Green

    David Green Well-Known Member

    haha! Yeah, just 5 more days until the earnings call, I moved all my Wednesday meeting to AM so I can listen in to the whole thing...
     
  19. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    That's not how Tesla has performed. Sadly, it's pretty commonplace for TSLA investors -- both long and short -- to confuse performance of Tesla, the company, with TSLA, the stock. I saw that on a daily basis during the time when I was reading the Tesla-related comments and blog posts on Seeking Alpha.

    * * * * *

    Here's how Tesla has performed over the past several years:

    Tesla’s global automobile sales totals:
    2012: 2650
    2013: 22,300
    2014: 31,655 (+41.95%)
    2015: 50,580 (+59.8%)
    2016: 76,230 (+50.7%)
    2017: 101,312 (+32.9%)

    I wonder how that's going to look next year. Do we think Tesla will reach a +100% growth this year? Or is that too optimistic?
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2018
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  20. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    "Electrotek"??? ...that's Electrek.

    I hope the rest of that short-seller cabbage is better researched than that, but one doubts it. Tesla Death Cultists are not exactly known for attention to facts, accuracy, or honesty.

    Anyway, I did read Fred Lambert's rant about Montana Skeptic, and it did seem highly biased in the pro-Tesla direction. So I was surprised to see almost exactly the same things said, if slightly less stridently, about Montana Skeptic in the Clean Technica article. So I guess most of what Fred said is true, or at least the facts are.

    Yes, every sensible or socially responsible person should be glad that the ultra-troll, the Tesla Death Cult leader known as "Montana Skeptic," has been outed and forced to delete his Twitter account. The only ones who will be dismayed are the Tesla Death Cultists who parrot so much of the FUD which Montana Skeptic churned out.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2018
  21. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    Are you still claiming that you're not invested in TSLA stock? Seriously?

    [​IMG]
     
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  22. David Green

    David Green Well-Known Member

    Sales increase percentage does not matter so much when you are starting from scratch, that is a metric that is more applicable to mature companies. I tend to look at sales # increase, and Revenue/ Profit, and upside. I think Tesla should have a 100K increase in sales in 2018 over 2017, 2019 is where I see the challenge sales wise as Tesla's current production capacity maxes out, and the competition is coming in force, also with the sunset of the FIT tax credit. Even though the FIT credit only drops in half initially, the perceived effect is much higher then the $3750... I expect Tesla sales in 2019 to be flat over 2018, same with 2020. The earliest I can see Tesla getting any increased production /sales potential is 2021, and I think that is a very long shot (2022/2023 more likely). Model 3 RWD is already seeing market saturation in the USA and Canada, as you will see when Inside EV's announces the July sales that look to be under 11K for Model 3, from everything I am seeing (very low considering there were over 11K in transit to begin the month, and around 16K manufactured during July). As I said a couple weeks ago to Wade Malone here, Model 3 sales of 15K in July would be par, 20K would show strong demand, and less then the 11K in transit at the end of June would signify a demand problem.

    I declare to you I have absolutely no TSLA stock, long or short, and never have had TSLA stock... It is just interesting to follow the drama.
     
  23. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    ...said no businessman, ever.

    And the increase in sales -- or more specifically, production -- matters a great deal to those who want to buy a Tesla car, or Tesla roof tiles, or Tesla PowerWalls, or Tesla commercial solar panels, or any other Tesla product.

    I have no doubt that's just as true as 98% of your other comments about Tesla.

    You showed your true colors in those approx. two dozen bald, outright Tesla Death Cult posts you wrote to carpet-bomb one single Ars Technica comment discussion, the other day. So far as I'm concerned, it's a settled point.

    One of the things that continues to mystify me about the Tesla Death Cultists is why the majority of them make a pretense of not being a short-seller. Why don't they just own up to it? Don't they understand that when they deny something that's so obviously true, it just makes people question everything they write?

    In all the time I've been reading InsideEVs comments, I think I've seen only two of the Tesla Death Cultists admit that they are TSLA short-sellers. The rest of them continue to deny it. The only thing that accomplishes is undermining their credibility.

     

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