Electricity prices in Texas surge.

I’m in Texas. My prices are fixed and have not surged. But there are calls to conserve power to avoid rolling blackouts. Just another example of the grid already not able to meet power demands. Imagine how bad it would be if COVID was not a thing and even 25% of drivers had EVs and needed to charge tonight. Luckily we are not at that point EV wise.


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I just don’t understand the massive push to EVs without the corresponding clean “grid” push. We know this won’t work. Why do this the painful way.


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It's kind of ironic, but the more BEVs we get, the more fossil fuels will be burned (in the US) to support the electrical grid. Where I live, in BC, most of our electrical power already comes from renewables (hydro). Yet, we pay more if we charge our BEV at home (bumps us up to a higher cost tier). Fortunately for me, I don't have to charge at home, because of all the free chargers we have, and one really close to home. But it doesn't make sense either, if we want to incent people to buy more BEVs.

I wonder what will happen to NG prices if fracking is stopped, or at least slowed down. That will drive up the cost of electricity. And might slow the migration away from coal. Again, seems ironic.

 

Seems accurate and why the massive forced pushed to EV in 5-10 years is confusing. It seems to require proper planning over a longer timeframe. You would also get a larger buy-in.


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We don't live in a 'command economy.' As electrical demand increases, the free market will respond. Heck, coal has all but collapsed due to natural gas.

Bob Wilson

 

Bob's correct. As demand increases, the power grid will adapt.

So far every study I've seen has stated they can handle the initial surge of EVs with smart grid technology and time of use pricing if folks charge at home. The main issues are fast charging which stresses the grid and snow pack for the Pacific Northwest.

Under normal circumstances, the utilities will have plenty of time to add more capacity.

Here in Washington state they haven't even started implementing a smart grid with pricing based on time of use at the local level. Plus, some of the public utilities want to build small scalable nuclear power plants.

Small scalable nuclear plants are certainly one possible solution if they can build them without cost overruns. Hopefully, the demonstration project in Idaho goes according to plan.

Folks are trying to create an issue where there isn't going to be one.

 

I thought there already was an issue in parts of the US with insufficient electrical grid capacity/delivery to meet peak demands. And we still have a very small number of EVs out there. That could change dramatically in the next 10 years. Grid capacity expansion does not move very quickly. NG, however, can buy time. But that still means more fossil fuel burning.

Don't get me wrong. I support the move to EVs for cars. I would rather see us burning more NG than gas or diesel on our streets. But if I lived in a state where the grid is already stressed, I would fill my roof top with PV panels.

 

Do forget there are startups like Beam who may make a difference.

https://beamforall.com/product/ev-arc-2020/

 

I had a look at that. Nothing very innovative. Just PVs, charge controller, batteries and an inverter. Same as I have at our cabin, but I would bet a heck of a lot cheaper. Given the capital investment to install in parking lots, etc, they are going to require a pretty hefty per kWh charge cost to be feasible. The battery bank would have to be very large (and very costly) to charge at night and when it is cloudy. Would be cheaper to charge from the grid.

No, we need more grid capacity, supplemented by roof top PVs.

 

Outside of the initial cost of the charging station and a couple of signs, what other capital costs do you think there are going to be?

How much do you think these charging stations cost?

One study I read, showed individual roof top solar to be one of the more expensive sources of electricity. Apparently commercial solar cost is reasonable, but not individual roof top solar.

 

Wheatley says its station, the EV-ARC, is $65,000, which also saves between $40,000 and $80,000 in electricity expenses over 20 years.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kensilverstein/2020/02/10/solar-powered-electric-vehicle-charging-stations-are-just-around-the-corner/?sh=5b45dda5320f

 

Don't know, but would be expensive given just the cost of the components. I didn't see a cost on their website.

I am not saying individual roof top solar is cheap, but at least it gives you protection against grid failures. Having said that, some on this forum have said their installations pay back within 10 years. Where I live (in BC) it is not so feasible because of our regulations with installation. On the other hand, at my cabin, my DIY costs were relatively cheap, probably about 1/4 of what it would cost at home for the same capacity.

 

That's a pretty poor return, if it takes 20 years just to pay for the initial cap ex. What about interest (amortization) and profit? How much per kWh are they going to have to charge to pay for that?

 

I would suggest a $5 a year tax on EVs to pay and maintain them. Then you wouldn't have to worry about profits.

 

That's a tax implying a subsidy. I am asking for a pure feasible business case for these chargers. I don't see it. And remember taxes have to come from someone's profits and income.

 

i think it depends on the application. I have a 6kw solar array that I installed for a cost of $12k over 8 years a go. In my case it allowed me to eliminate $1000 a year in propane cost as I now heat with a heat pump. I also eliminated about $1000 a year for gasoline costs by driving a Kona, plus eliminating my previous $400 a year electricity cost and finally I usually get about $100 a year back from the utility company due to net metering. Giving me an annual savings of about $2500 a year. So the panels paid for themselves in less than 5 years. Now the savings go to paying for the Kona. That been my experience YMMV

 

You only paid $400 per year for electricity before from the grid?? In summer, I pay almost that in the summer months, primarily because of central air.

 

I tend to super-insulate my house. So little A/c is needed. I also live at 4000 feet so it doesn't get that hot in the summer. Usually its in the mid 80s F and the nights are in the low 60s F. I just run a fan at nigh and house stays cool all day. The few hotter day during the year I run window a/c in the late afternoon.