Clarity Battery Teardown

Wow, that is a big battery for 17 kWh. Probably with upgraded cells they can easily get 25 KWh or so out of that pack.

Comparing this with a Tesla Model 3 battery, it is obvious that Honda used off the shelf components, vs. Tesla's approach that uses customized parts for everything, resulting in a simpler and denser design.

I think Honda can easily make this a 25 kWh battery, allowing 75 miles of electric driving.

 

BeMurda

Thanks for the post. Good info.

 

The Clarity battery is arranged around the occupants by putting big parts of it under the seats and in the tunnel. I'm sure it would have been easier to just make a battery slab like Tesla and GM do. However, the Clarity is actually an inch taller than the Model 3, so Tesla's slab doesn't seem to incur extra height. I'm too lazy to look up the headroom numbers to see if they're bigger in the Clarity.

I doubt it would be easy for Honda to make this 17 kWh battery into a 25 kWh battery--it certainly would increase the cost of the car both to pay for the more expensive batteries and the greater number of them.

The Clarity Electric has a 25.5 kWh battery and the extra batteries take up a large portion of the trunk. I'm sure you're correct that Honda has to use more off-the-shelf parts than Tesla, but can Tesla's batteries store 25/17 = 1.47% more power than the ones Honda buys?

 

There's an update video posted 3 days ago:

 

Yes, Tesla rear seat cushions are closer to the floor, so you have to seat with knees bent at a sharper angle.

To increase battery capacity, they use higher density cells, so the dimensions remain the same. Clarity modules seem to be relatively low density.

 

Feel free to tell me if this cannot be in this thread (i.e. separate issues). Some thoughts come into my mind:
1) I wonder if in year 9 my battery goes below 36 amp hours, will Honda replace for free, or charge a pro-rated amount.
2) I wonder what it could cost in year 11 (if no warranty) and battery needs replacing?
3) For folks like me that keep same car for 20 years at a time, I wonder if it's possible no battery replacement will be required.

 

1) I think they will replace it for free if it falls below the stated range, although they might use a refurbished battery.
2) It will cost a lot to buy a new battery, even 10 years from now. Most probably you will end up with a used or refurbished battery.
3) 20 years is a stretch, but there are many old Priuses with advanced age that still use the original battery. There are some that required a new battery. I think you will be fine for at least 15 years.

 

Everyone seems to forget that the Prius used a nickel metal hydride battery until I believe 2016 or later. NiMh batteries will last a lot longer than current Lithium Ion batteries. I'll be happy if they last 10 years.

 

In their main market (PZEV states), the battery has 10 years warranty (maintain 70% of the original capacity), so it is extremely unlikely to have many failures in 10-11 years.

 

They have continued since then with NiMH batteries in some of the Prius models, apparently for supply chain reasons. Interestingly for 2019 the only models that have NiMH are the two new AWD versions, apparently the assumption is that the AWD versions will mostly be sold in colder climates where NiMH has some advantages. As a side note the AWD is just a small electric motor on the rear axle that can drive the rear wheels at slow speeds.

 

Are you:

Still on your first car,
40ish on your second,
60ish on your third?



Regardless, you're an outlier and not someone a manufacture or engineer would not consider in their long term considerations.

Going by most older hybrid owners behavior when confronted with this question, by then you won't think purchasing a new battery makes sense/cents so going used, rebuilt, or cheaper than OEM aftermarket will be your options.

 

Very interesting videos, although I don't like how he keeps using the word "complicated" to describe the battery and its arrangement.

 

I'm 50. My last car was purchased brand new in 2002 (2003 model year- Subaru Outback) and I drove it for 16 years. I would of kept driving it until the wheels fell off but repeated head gasket failures killed the deal for me.

Prior to the Subaru, I always had cars with close to 200,000 miles and they were basically disposable. Use it for a few years if lucky, and buy another cheap vehicle if need be. In my younger years I bought cars for $1000 or less. So I try to be practical when it comes to keeping my transportation cost down. And yes, some of my cars when I was in my 20's were pretty gross. I even had a Datsun B210 that eventually had more than 300,000 miles on it. The floor rusted through, and I had to place the mats properly to keep water from spraying me when driving through puddles.

I don't believe new cars are really ever the best option if your primary goal is minimizing cost, but keeping the cost down is important to me. I rationalize a new car purchase with the thought that its cost over time (as I drive it until it won't drive any more), is relatively low. Say compared with someone who has to have a new car every 10 years.

So that's my rationale. I don't believe others should have my idea about it. Folks do what's best for them. And in case not obvious, I'm not a car geek. I'm mostly interested in reliable and low-cost transportation. For me, keeping a car a long time is mostly a cost-saving move. I also admit I love the Clarity and hope my particular unit defies all known expectations of longevity.
Maybe my battery will die in year 9, and Honda will replace with refurbished battery so I keep driving it for 18 years!
(And yes, by far and away, Clarity is the nicest car I've ever owned)

PS: Sorry for the slight exaggeration. My last car was 2002 until late 2018 so that's more like 16 years and not 20. But I would of kept it for 20 if I could!

 

This is very good look at the battery. They aimed for 17, since it maximizes the IRS credit and minimizes the battery cost.

Based on seeing the hybrid battery module, link below, the construction method is the same. So they grouped the modules and fit them under the seats to reach 17.

One thing to note, Toyota noted that they monitor every cell in the Pirus Prime pack for safety. Bottom link. They may be the only one doing so, and if you don't have a conservative battery design it should be necessary to monitor all cells. The Clarity pack looks conservative.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/A-2017-HONDA-ACCORD-HYBRID-BATTERY-CELL-PACK-LITHIUM-ION-P-N-HLBM03-C-131D-01/143242888248?fits=Submodel:Hybrid|Make:Honda&hash=item2159f10438:g:RY8AAOSwKVVc0ddb&redirect=mobile

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-toyota-batteries-idUSKBN12U0ZH

 

I feel ya'. Our oldest car in the stable is a 13 year old Prius and it had battery issues just after the warranty expired on the original owner (literally a little ol' lady). I played "wack-a-mole" as it's called in the Prius world by replacing failed individual modules. It's a lot of physical work and if done properly the car will be down for nearly two weeks. I did that a couple of times over a year before finally biting the bullet and getting a new battery for $2500 with a 4 year warranty (they are now as low as $1600). The decision to go new was fairly easy for me as the car only had about 47k miles (little ol' lady didn't drive it so that's why the battery didn't last) and I need it to be reliable transportation for at least 3-5 more years (kids).

For the Clarity and other plug-ins with large batteries it will probably make the best sense/cents to replace individual failed modules or find a used pack when the time comes. Battery repair/refurbishment is a growing industry.

 

Does this imply that if I have a battery issue after the warranty period that there are places to go other than the Honda dealer?

 

With Prius it has become basically a cottage industry, plenty of places to get refurbed batteries and the quality is good enough that it makes no sense to go to the dealer who will only install a brand new battery at exorbitant prices. As for more specialized batteries like Clarity, the market is much smaller but there are already enough Clarities out there that I'm sure battery refurb companies will support them. Hasn't started yet because all batteries are still under warranty and will be for several years except for high mileage drivers. We did have one post from an Uber driver who I think was already at 25,000 after less than a year.

 

^^^ yes this is true.

If after 10 years I still have the car, I would go to my trustworthy independent mechanic who would find a junked/crashed or rebuilt battery for a whole lot cheaper than a new dealer priced battery.
At least I know that my mechanic would stand behind the product and labor...

 

There is another option now: NEW aftermarket (cough, china, cough) modules sold as a complete set. These replace all the Toyota modules and harness but still use the rest of original electronics and hardware including the case.

Hopefully Honda likes the design and chemistry used in the Clarity pack and will spread it out across other models. That will really help aftermarket suppliers down the road knowing there is wider user base. Also, sell more Clarity's!!!