Buying our second EV

Discussion in 'General' started by Lou Grinzo, Mar 2, 2018.

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  1. Lou Grinzo

    Lou Grinzo Member

    I assume that the Bolt drives very well, based on my exhaustive online research. But I just couldn't live with the interior, so as part of "car shopping triage" it got crossed off the list. To my eye, there's a huge disconnect between the Bolt's exterior, which I like quite a bit, and the interior that's too busy and has some very odd and unavoidable (by the consumer) color choices. (I'm trying to diplomatic about this, as I'm sure there are numerous Bolt owners who read this forum, and I don't want to trigger an EV nerd slap fight. Nobody wins in that scenario.)
     
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  3. Lou Grinzo

    Lou Grinzo Member

    I'm looking forward to finding out how this little drama plays out, as well.

    Right now, I'm deeply confused. The most likely outcome is an SV, but it could be an S, nothing at all for now as I wait for other car makers to wake the heck up, or even (gasp!) an SL. Since I'm running up against a domestic clock (i.e. my wife is running out of patience), this could get decidedly interesting in the next few days. Assuming I survive the adventure, I'll keep reporting.
     
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  4. WadeTyhon

    WadeTyhon Well-Known Member

    Also, too bad your local chevy dealer is so terrible. My Chevy dealer is top notch.

    You’ll end up with a leaf. Most people prefer to stick with the familiar and understandably so. If your leaf has steered you well this long, why change? :)
     
  5. All I'm saying is "happy wife, happy life" is a pretty good rule of thumb.
     
  6. Lou Grinzo

    Lou Grinzo Member

    I returned to the dealer yesterday with my wife. I'm going to separate our experience into two parts below, the car and the dealer.

    The car: We test drove a Leaf SV. While it felt familiar and very much like our 2013 Leaf, in a good way, it also felt like it was significantly updated. More power, much nicer controls and gauges, etc. We came away impressed but not blown away; the one feature I disliked was the e-pedal. We had talked about it before going to the dealer and then again standing in the parking lot just after the test drive, and we agreed that it didn't make sense for us to spend the delta on an SL. For those following this thread, yes, this means I actually won one of these discussions with my wife, which is a statistical outlier, not to mention reason for me to do an embarrassing victory dance in the parking lot. I'm sure when they show security cam highlights at this year's Xmas party, I'll be one of the stars. But I digress.

    The dealer: As I've said before, we bought my Leaf and my wife's Rogue from this dealer, and they seemed to really be on the ball -- knowledgeable and with great attention to detail. Last night, that went right out the window. I had told my contact there early in the day that we would be coming in to test drive a Leaf S, and she said she would let our salesman know, have the car ready, etc. We got there and found: no car (it was stored on a remote lot), no salesman (no one had told him we were coming in), no business manager to talk deal (ditto). When the salesman arrived -- someone called him at home despite our objections to interrupting his evening -- it turned out he knew almost zero about EVs. Everything he did online, as in looking up local inventory, was painfully slow. I asked about the NY State $2,000 EV rebate and he had no idea how that was executed (turns out, it's point-of-purchase). It was a textbook case of how not to try to sell someone an electric car. (In the interest of brevity I'm omitting several more damning details.)

    I diplomatically but firmly told my contact at the dealership via e-mail this morning how badly things had gone. Several hours later I got a phone message from their business manager saying that they had obviously done a bad job and he wanted to talk to me to get it straightened out. I don't know yet if that will result in fewer dollars flowing from my pocket to the dealership's, or if it will be an exercise in hot air.

    Summary: My wife and I are both much less enthusiastic about buying a Leaf than we were before our encounter. Despite my dislike of the Bolt's interior, I plan to test drive one soon, possibly tomorrow, and try to convince myself that I could live with it. (Several local dealers have 2017 Bolts available on big discounts.) Because of the increased need for range (a relatively new addition to our requirements), we're feeling a bit trapped by the lack of real world options. I like the idea of a 40 kWh Soul EV, but it's not likely to arrive before very late this year, and the new FFE is a 2019 vehicle.

    Part of the issue here is deciding how long we will keep my next car. My wife likes the idea of buying one and if it turns out to be an issue for any reason then we can trade it in on something else in a couple of years. This is very expensive thanks to depreciation in a car's early years on the road, especially an EV. But with the high lease rates we were quoted for a Leaf (see way upthread), there's no real incentive to lease rather than buy and quickly (by our standards) trade in. And this also intersects with the issue of Leaf battery durability. Our 2013 Leaf is still showing all bars, and I think this is entirely due to not living in a hot part of the US and always charging it via 120v outlet overnight. But will that usage pattern similarly preserve a 40 kWh battery in a 2018 Leaf? My gut says yes, but it's a sizable gamble.

    More details to follow as this saga unfolds...
     
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  8. ekutter

    ekutter Member

    Similar experience to me. They make it sound like they are motivated to move the new Leaf's but their actions say otherwise. I was ready to buy one as well until the buying experience went south. Makes it much easier to wait for 2019's (various makes/models). I wonder how many others will do the same and end up in something other than a Nissan because of that.
     
  9. WadeTyhon

    WadeTyhon Well-Known Member

    I have had the Bolt for nearly a year and nearly 12,000 miles now. The interior is great! The large touchscreen and UI are intuitive. The Bolt will hold it's value far better, I assure you. The Volt has always held it's value better than the Leaf. The 2017 leaf trade-in value is dropping at a far faster rate than the 2017 Bolt. And the 2018 Leaf will do the same, especially once the long range 2019 Leaf arrives. If you do go with the Leaf, and you do plan to buy, definitely wait for the 2019!

    If you don't like regen braking, just drive in "D" mode instead of "L". Plenty of creep when you let off of the go pedal. "L" has high regen.

    I'm glad to hear the seats didn't bother you when you first viewed the car! Like I said, I think they're fine. I only suggest taking your wallet out of your pocket if you have one.

    My only complaint is the lack of electric seats. Sure, it saves a tiny amount of weight and saves a tiny amount of money in manufacturing. But I really think Chevy needs to start including this in all of their EVs. Only the ELR and CT6 have had them so far.

    Try to get a dark gray interior if they have one. Not only does it look better, it will not have the glare issue you are concerned about.

    [​IMG]

    Hope your test drive goes well!
     
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  10. Lou Grinzo

    Lou Grinzo Member

    As I mentioned the other day, my wife and I got to test drive a Bolt LT.

    The driving performance -- go, turn, stop, as old-timey car guys used to say -- was very nice. Snappy acceleration in both regular and Sport mode, nimble enough handling, brakes felt good, etc.

    The size of the car wasn't a major issue, but my wife pointed out that thanks to a recent change in our likely usage pattern for whatever vehicle we get, the Bolt would be a tight fit on many trips, bordering on too small at times.

    I really do like the exterior looks of the car. Just enough funky to avoid being boring.

    The seats seemed OK for the brief time we both sat in the car. I was surprised by the lack of navigation, and how you have to pair your phone and use Google maps (and therefore your phone's data allowance). I definitely didn't like the steering wheel and the membrane buttons. The instrumentation and main infotainment screen were fine, if a little too "try hard"; I wish Ford and GM would just blatantly steal designs from Japanese and Euro cars. The dash was a big turnoff for both of us, thanks largely to the hard, white plastic bits. (All they have to do is check a different box when ordering those parts and get them in dark gray or black. But someone in their design shop had to try to be the smartest person in the room and use the light gray and white pieces.)

    After our encounter with the Bolt, I told my wife that GM got everything from the skateboard platform down exactly right (battery size, TMS, brakes), but above that there were still a lot of signs of the weird GM designs I've hated for decades.

    Which brings us to one of those decisions that I detest in cars: Can I learn to live with, if not love, the Bolt's interior for the sake of getting something that has the long range, a TMS, and much better value retention than a 2018 Leaf? I'm torn, but my wife is firmly in the "don't even consider getting something you won't be happy with on day one" camp. (Her car is a 2016 Rogue SL, which I suspect she loves more than she loves me.)

    Just to further complicate things, I've been doing a lot more research into Leaf battery woes, and I think there's no way I could be convinced to buy a 2018 Leaf, short of a massive discount from Nissan, which won't happen until the 2019s are almost ready to ship. So now I'm back to seeing what kind of lease deal I can pry out of my dealer, but it seems there's no chance of a 36-month lease on an SV at a total cost of under $17,000. Yikes.

    Tune in soon for the next episode of How The Wheel Turns...
     
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  11. Yeah those LEAF battery problems that keep cropping up are a little worrisome. I suspect this latest thing, with some new ones not being able to charge quickly after a third visit to a fast charger, might not be a battery issue as much as a software one, but were it me, I'd be waiting for a good explanation from Nissan. It's a shame, really. A great car, by all accounts, but it's hard to sink a lot of money into something when you hear of others having these sorts of issues.

    And then there's the Bolt. I finally got to see one in person a couple days ago and sit in it. Was not impressed. I could go on and on about why, but...I'm going to start a thread about it.

    I saw a LEAF lease on the net and added it up. Came to around $12K and some change for 3 years. Then I realized I could buy a 3 year old LEAF outright for the same money, and probably pay a lot less in insurance. Who knew buying an electric car would still be so difficult in 2018?
     
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  13. WadeTyhon

    WadeTyhon Well-Known Member

    Certainly we need to like the cars we buy. But It's rarely a good idea to buy a car purely on your emotional reaction to it, if that's what she means. :) Your love of a new car is fleeting and will wear thin. What will keep you in the car is how well it serves you in your day to day.

    For instance, lack of navigation doesn't bother me personally. I've lived in the same general area for my entire life. I know it like the back of my hand. I primarily use maps only when driving out of town or if there is major traffic.

    But if you use maps often, I can see this being an issue! (Although if you want it, onstar turn by turn nav is available.)

    I try to find a middle ground between what I "want" what I "need" and what I can reasonably afford. For me, the Bolt is fun to drive, easy to maintain and 100% electric! Lots of back seat space for passengers, and small SUV-like utility with the seats folded down.

    Sure, I'd love a Model S... but buying a car that expensive means it would own me and my budget! The Bolt works great for what I need, is reasonably priced and ticks most of the boxes for what I want. My wife has different priorities and is awaiting a Model 3.

    So in other words, it's your car... get the car that's best suited to you! Good luck, let us know what you decide!
     
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  14. You're going to be so jealous. :)
     
  15. Marcel_g

    Marcel_g Member

    Yeah, we don't know yet if the rapid degradation issues with the 30kwh Leaf have made their way into the 2018 model. The chemistry is different, so the 2018 *might* be fine.

    It's also possible the 30's problems stem from being charged above 80% too much, so the 2018 would be fine if you managed your charging. It could be a combo of SOC and temperature. It could be something else. We don't really know, we're just guessing because the 2018 doesn't allow DCFC when the temperature gets high, so it *seems* like they're protecting the battery. If it's just a factor of temperature, then the lack of TMS in the 2018 is concerning. There's enough room in the pack to add a cooling system, so it's baffling why they didn't add one.
     
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  16. WadeTyhon

    WadeTyhon Well-Known Member

    Maybe a little but I'm helping her pay for it so I get to drive it too sometimes! ;)

    Besides, I have (hopefully) timed my Bolt lease perfectly to match up with the Model Y!
     
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