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Budget Battery Capacity Readout

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by MrFixit, Feb 27, 2021.

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  1. Mar 2, 2021 #41
    lincomatic

    lincomatic Member

    I ran our new PIDs on my car this morning, after charging it last night, and can confirm Landshark's <4.1V target mentioned above.. the cells were all charged to around 4076mV. Also, Autel's report lists the "Charging Voltage Target = 4082.6mV"
     

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  2. Mar 2, 2021 #42
    lincomatic

    lincomatic Member

    How to Disable Auto Sleep in iCar Pro BT4.0

    As some of you have noticed, the iCar Pro goes into deep sleep, and can't be awakened by turning on the Clarity. You can disable deep sleep by going into Car Scanner's Terminal screen, and sending the following:

    >ATPP 0E SV 7A
    OK
    >ATPP 0E ON
    OK
    >ATZ
    ELM327 v2.2

    To re-enable deep sleep, substitute the first line of the above with
    >ATPP OE SV FA

    Turning off the deep sleep function can save some wear and tear on the car's OBD2 connector. I don't think you have to worry about battery drain if you drive the car regularly, but if you let the car sit for over a week, it's probably a good idea to unplug it, or turn on the deep sleep.

    Also, there's the issue of security. If you leave it plugged in an it's on all the time, anyone who's in its vicinity can connect to it, and change its settings. I don't think they can hack your car, however, since the CAN bus is turned off at the OBD2 port unless the car is turned on.

    Personally, I have a y-cable, and am going to leave that connected to the car. That way, I can unplug/plug the device in when I need it repeatedly, w/o worrying about wearing out the OBD2 connector.

    upload_2021-3-2_13-52-43.png
     
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  3. Mar 2, 2021 #43
    lincomatic

    lincomatic Member

    Please let us know where the nearest ACC power is located, if you end up doing this. I will probably go the same way.

    Also, thanks for posting your comprehensive summary of your tests above!
     
  4. Mar 2, 2021 #44
    MrFixit

    MrFixit Well-Known Member

    Maryland
    We are ready to offer additional PID's that provide quite a lot more functionality.
    Since Torque has the substantial problem discussed above, these new PID's are packaged for use with Car Scanner.

    ** Important ** We had to get the Car Scanner developer to tweak the import / export functionality to enable this to work completely. He has a public beta for this on the Google Play store, and you will first need to update your Car Scanner to that version (Currently version 1.75.9). I presume he will release this once validated. You can google to learn how to access a public beta version... Not clear how long before he will release this officially, but hopefully we will know when he does.

    ** One Other Note ** - Somewhere along the way with adding all this functionality, Car Scanner advised me that I had exceeded some limit of the free version and I had to upgrade to Pro. I don't know exactly what triggered this, but It was only $3.99 and the developer has been very cooperative with us. I submit to you that it is well worth it to have all this functionality for your vehicle ! So, you can try the free and see if it works for a while or just upgrade from the start.

    This functionality includes the following:
    • Battery Capacity (Total)
    • Battery Capacity (Just Bank B)
    • Individual Cell Min SOC (Line A)
    • Individual Cell Max SOC (Line A)
    • Individual Cell Min SOC (Line B)
    • Individual Cell Max SOC (Line B)
    • Overall SOC
    • Air Temperature Inside Vehicle
    • Air Temperature Outside Vehicle
    • Transmission Temperature
    • Individual Cell Voltages (Bank A) - There are 84 of these, every cell is reported
    • Individual Cell Voltages (Bank B) - There are 84 of these, every cell is reported

    There are two ways to import things into Car Scanner:

    1. You can do a "Backup". This stores and retrieves everything including the PID's and all of the Car Scanner settings including the dashboard setup and everything else. The file format for this is ".cbz".

    2. You can also save and restore just your custom PID's. This is where all of our customized Clarity PID's reside. This file format is ".csp", and you save or restore this from the "Sensors" settings page. There is a trash can at the top of the page which can clear all of the custom PID's if you want to start from scratch.

    I have attached both of these files to this posting. My suggestion is to use the "Backup" to restore all your settings from my attached ".cbz" file. It has all the Clarity goodies, and settings for a Honda / Acura Hybrid which gives you quite a few more that happen to apply also. If you successfully import a backup from this file you will have ~180 Clarity PID's that will appear on the 'sensors' page.

    This includes a simple dashboard that shows some of the key battery stuff. If you develop a better dashboard, please share it with the group.

    You can always use the use the "All Sensors" button on the main screen to look at the large list of values (including the Honda Hybrid ones) when connected. The Clarity-specific values are all together at the bottom of the list and are easily identified because the names all start with [Clarity].
     

    Attached Files:

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  5. Mar 2, 2021 #45
    MrFixit

    MrFixit Well-Known Member

    Maryland
    I just measured the current drain when the Vgate device is idle (but before it goes to sleep). My measurement was 50 mA.
    This number is not highly accurate because it is 'low' and I used a clamp-on DC ammeter, but I think it is pretty close.

    I read that a "normal" parasitic drain on a new vehicle is 50-85 milliamps, so this would essentially be doubling the typical parasitic drain (I have never measured the Clarity). Certainly fine if you drive "regularly". My feeling would be that you could safely leave it plugged in with sleep disabled if you drive the car at least once a week.

    But - Don't blame me if your battery goes dead :p
     
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  6. Mar 2, 2021 #46
    Olimpia

    Olimpia Member

    Thanks for all the awesome help and tips offered here.
    Got my OBD device and got the CarScanner app for Android and just finished running a test.

    I got a reading of 47.04 reading which I think it's...not very good?
    I've had my Clarity for 3 years and put 31,000 miles on the car so far. My daily commute really puts the car to the max since my commute to and from work is 48 miles (typically drive slightly more than that to go out and get lunch). I charge twice daily (home and at work). Too bad I didn't know about this test before, it would have been nice to do monthly readings and see what kind of drop I've been getting, hopefully it's not this linear otherwise I'll be in trouble since I was hoping to keep the car for at least 5 more years lol
     
  7. Mar 2, 2021 #47
    JohnT

    JohnT Active Member

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  8. Mar 2, 2021 #48
    Landshark

    Landshark Well-Known Member

    Oregon 2019 Touring PHEV
    Mine read 49.9Ah after 18 months and 15,000 miles. I typically use nearly all of the battery capacity M-F and charge once daily with a L1 charger.

    Depending on the state in which you reside, the battery carries a warranty of 8 or 10 years. If capacity drops below 36.6Ah in that time period, you’ll get a new battery.
     
  9. Mar 3, 2021 #49
    Landshark

    Landshark Well-Known Member

    Oregon 2019 Touring PHEV
    I just took a look at the Electric Powertrain print out from the dealer. It shows a Charging Voltage Target of 4091.6mV.
    I saved a previously published EP report from this forum which showed a Charging Voltage Target of 4093.8mV.

    My battery capacity is 49.9Ah, the battery capacity on the downloaded report (Autel) was 53.8Ah (VIN 9537) Could there be a relationship between the Charging Voltage Target and battery capacity? Or is there some variation between the readings from iHDS, Autel and CarScanner?

    lincomatic, what is your battery capacity?
     

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  10. Mar 3, 2021 #50
    lincomatic

    lincomatic Member

    Yes, I think the Charging Voltage Target will probably decrease as the battery ages. The value I quoted earlier was from MrFixit's car, when it was at 49.1Ah. I haven't figured out how to read it yet. My battery capacity is 52.78Ah, with about 10400mi.
     
  11. Mar 3, 2021 #51
    lincomatic

    lincomatic Member

    I just found a couple of candidates for querying the car for the Charging Voltage Target. I will log the matching PIDs from your car when you bring it to me, and see if the value is equal or close to what you got from the dealer.
     
  12. Mar 3, 2021 #52
    lincomatic

    lincomatic Member

    @Landshark, OK, I just tested my car w/ the candidate PID I came up with, and it looks like my Charging Voltage Target = 4091.6mV!
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2021
  13. Mar 3, 2021 #53
    MrFixit

    MrFixit Well-Known Member

    Maryland
    I don't think this is discouraging at all. Pretty sure it is not a linear decline and this seems consistent with my experience so far.
     
  14. Mar 3, 2021 #54
    vtec1992

    vtec1992 New Member

    I have a 2021 Clarity, bought new in Nov 2020.
    It has ~7300 miles on it.
    Just used car scanner app and the recommended vgate adaptor to read battery capacity.
    Got 53.52 Ah.
    My daily work commute is about 40 miles round trip.
    I charge the car everyday.
    I have done a few longer weekend trips with the car, but I would guess about 60-70% of the miles are on EV.
    The car is in Central Ohio, so it has been cold.
     
  15. Mar 3, 2021 #55
    Johngalt6146

    Johngalt6146 Active Member

    AWESOME WORK!! Thanks very much. Dumb Question: I thought the Clarity had a 17.5 AH battery. Is there that much unused capacity?
     
  16. Mar 3, 2021 #56
    MrFixit

    MrFixit Well-Known Member

    Maryland
    The 17.5 number is killowatt-hours. That is a measure of energy, and is most often cited for EV battery size.
    This is roughly equivalent to the nominal 55 ampere-hours (a measure of charge rather than energy).

    Two different ways to express basically the same thing. The Honda warranty is based on charge rather then energy (hence the interest in this ampere-hour version).
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2021
  17. Mar 3, 2021 #57
    Johngalt6146

    Johngalt6146 Active Member

    DAH - I'm an electrical engineer - I should have noted that. Too early in the morning. Thanks!
     
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  18. Mar 3, 2021 #58
    DucRider

    DucRider Well-Known Member

    Battery in the PHEV is 17 kWh
    84 cells in series with a nominal voltage of 3.7 means a nominal pack voltage of 310.8 (they round to 311 in their EPA application)
    310.8 x 55.1 Ah = 17.1 kWh

    The Clarity BEV has three 84s modules instead of two and is reported as a 25.5 kWh pack

    It will be interesting to see what people report as fully charged pack/cell voltage as capacity declines.

    EVs will also periodically perform cell balancing - typically after they are charged to 100%. A local used car dealer that sells BEVs exclusively has found that deep cycling and fully charging a vehicle for several cycles will "restore" the battery to a certain degree. This is easy to see on Teslas (range estimate is tied directly to battery energy) and LEAFs (they have a bar display for battery capacity). On other vehicles this info is thru the equivalent of the OBDII method you are describing. He has done this on probably hundreds of vehicles.. It doesn't always work, but it does often enough that he does it regularly on vehicles showing reduced range.

    If any of you don't fully cycle your battery or typically stop the charging before the car does - it would be interesting to see if doing so for a few cycles increases the reported Ah.
     
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  19. Mar 3, 2021 #59
    lincomatic

    lincomatic Member

    OK, I retract my conjecture yesterday that the Charging Voltage Target probably drops as the battery ages. Last night, on a full battery, mine was 4091.6 mV. Overnight, the car topped itself up again w/ .2kWh. This morning, my Charging Voltage Target dropped to 4087.4mV. So I have absolutely no idea how it's set. The cells range around 4077-4080mV
     
  20. Mar 3, 2021 #60
    jpkik96

    jpkik96 Member

    All - Sorry for the delay; I just received the VGate BT Adapter today. After re-linking to CarScannerPro app (using Android - Samsung S9+); it showed a measurement of 48.22. That is fairly close to the dealer measurement of 48.7 back in November 2020 and approx 1,600 miles ago, most of which were EV-related. It looks like the elusive battery capacity code may have finally been cracked - thank you and congratulations to all involved with this project!
     
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