Angry bee at startup after software update

Discussion in 'Clarity' started by Hypomania, Jan 1, 2019.

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  1. Hypomania

    Hypomania New Member

    I didn’t have this problem until I updated my software last month at the dealership. Here is the symptom: i start my car with any charge level, regardless full or not. I drive at EV. I don’t brake at full battery level. The angry bee sound starts to be noticeable at 20mph and totally depends car speed. The higher the speed, the louder the sound, regardless whether I press my gas pedal or not. There is no sound at full stop. It will go away after about 10 minutes of driving and will repeat next time I start my car. I have also notices the estimated mileage reduced during these period. It is reproducible every single time. It is quite annoying and totally detroys the fun of EV driving. Any thoughts?
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  3. craze1cars

    craze1cars Well-Known Member

    Are you in Sport mode? I can maybe see this happening if you usually drive in Sport.

    But if it's doing what you describe in Econ or regular non-econ EV mode...I'd complain to dealer/Honda...

    Once in a while, at cold temps, in EV mode with a full charge, my engine starts, essentially stays at idle/low rpm for 10 minutes, and then shuts itself off. I don't consider it a big deal, can't repeat it, and it rarely happens. Others have reported similar on their vehicles as it seems you are aware.

    But if it's doing what you describe every time, I feel it's worthy of complaining to the powers-that-be, as annoying as that process will be for you. Sorry you're having problems.
  4. jorgie393

    jorgie393 Well-Known Member

    A few questions to make sure your angry bees are the same as others:

    1) when this happens (during the first 10 minutes), does the EV indicator go out even though you were in EV to begin with?

    2) any chance you are in sport mode?

    3) It is very odd that the sound is proportional to speed (since the Clarity is not clutched to the driveshaft ordinarily). Could still be a rough proportion if the engine is working at various intensities to drive the generator under changing demand, but then I would expect it to drop off when you are not pressing the accelerator, but you say it is the same even if accelerator is pressed or not. Does it drop off at all when you release the accel, or is it exactly the same (just dependent on speed) with no change at all when you release the pedal?

    3) which mileage estimate drops: the EV miles or the total miles?

    Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
  5. Hypomania

    Hypomania New Member

    Thank you for your reply. I have put my answers below.
  6. Hypomania

    Hypomania New Member

    Thanks for replying. I am in Florida. The temperature is 75 today. It is still reproduced. I am in normal mode, not the sport mode. I hate going to the dealership as I already have been there once for the multiple warning errors, which some of you have experienced in the forum. But it seems that I have to go there again.

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  8. Sandroad

    Sandroad Well-Known Member

    I hope I'm not perceived wrongly with this idea, but:

    1) the drivability issue started right after your last visit to the dealer for software updates and has been going on since last month
    2) the drivability issue totally destroy your fun of EV driving and annoys you
    3) the drivability issue is reproducible every single time you restart the car

    So......take the car back to the dealer and have them fix it!
    ClarityDoc likes this.
  9. jorgie393

    jorgie393 Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the update.

    Totally bizarre. I have to say—it sounds like it is a non-engine noise. If the engine is running, the EV indicator should turn off, period. And the noise should have some dependence in the accelerator position, not purely speed.

    Did anything else get done at the same time as the software updates? Could it be something vibrating in the wind? I assume you’ve already considered and rejected that.

    Arguing for it being an engine noise is that it stops after 10 min.

    Out of my league to diagnose I am afraid.

    Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
  10. Hypomania

    Hypomania New Member

    Engine noise is more of a speculation, since I don’t have the ability to open the hood while the car is running at 30mph. But it seems that the sound comes from the right side of the hood (engine side).

    I changed my oil and rotated my tire last time along with the software update presumably to fix the range issue. They wanted to fix the climate control unit according to another TSB but didn’t do so due to lack of parts.

    If not the engine, what else could be possible?
  11. Nemesis

    Nemesis Active Member

    Just to add quickly. This is the same thing that happened to me after the dealer updates for the bulletin campaigns. I had about 11,000 miles on my car before the campaign were done and never really had angry bees but it started immediately after the campaigns were done. However now, I have good news to report and a hypothesis to how this occurs. In short, when the campaigns are flashed on the cars ECU or whatever it is called, it erases all of the driving history that was learned from my driving. In my case, 11,000 miles of great driving with no agree bees. However after taking 2 trips from Boston to New York and other long distance drives, the ECU is learning my driving habits again and guess what; 95% of the angry bees are gone. I feel the more I drive the car, the more it is relearning how not to go into angry bee mode. I was going to document in more detail after reaching 15,000 miles but this thread is relevant to my future update.
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  13. Dan Albrich

    Dan Albrich Well-Known Member

    OP: I have a tendency to drive with the vehicle graphic turned on mostly to better understand what the car is doing. The graphic will show you when the electric is only thing working, usually blue color or green when regenerating. If you see animation going from the engine while driving (in my experience) that means the engine is running.

    The center graphic is configurable, and its display is under vehicle information.

    Anyway, the graphic / visual can be quite helpful. In my case, the engine doesn't normally turn on when in Econ and normal drive mode and I don't ever hit the "gas"-peddle hard enough to feel the detent that causes the gas engine to run. I don't use sport mode (not like opposed to it, but I'm trying to reduce my energy use). Also, I would avoid sport even if you normally use it when troubleshooting this issue. It makes it more likely the gas engine will be called upon (at all).

    In my case the only time I hear angry bees is when my estimated electric range goes to zero-- which happens to me fairly often. But its predictable and not at all random.

  14. Hypomania

    Hypomania New Member


    I like your approach and have done it myself as well. Unfortunately, the graphical illustration showed the engine was not engaged at all while the angry bees were all over my head. That’s why I was so intrigued and came here to ask.
  15. Hypomania

    Hypomania New Member

    Thanks for posting this! I am glad and sorry to know someone else had the same issue. I will keep you posted as well.
  16. MNSteve

    MNSteve Well-Known Member

    You can know if the engine was on by opening the hood and checking to see if it is warm. [Stop first.]

    I have never experienced the engine starting in EV mode. I stick in ECON mode always.
  17. Dan Albrich

    Dan Albrich Well-Known Member

    Like MNSteve, I've never had the engine start in EV mode. I don't mean in any way to discount what Hypomania is saying-- it just hasn't been my experience.

    I *have* seen the engine kick on when going down a hill, with paddle regen, and a full charge. Somehow as noted in these forums, the car can dissipate electric charge by starting the gas motor.

    I also have kicked on the gas engine (accidentally) in sport mode. I was in town and needed to stop briefly, so I turned off the car, and turned it back on since the engine would not stop running once it started. Once I stopped and re-started, I went back to normal EV mode and it stayed.

    The two examples above are really rare cases with me (each only occurring once since I bought the car 9/2018). I hope you can figure out what's happening.

    Also, and again not to discount anything said, my car's visual display has been 100% accurate as near as I can tell. What mean to say, is 100% of the time when I see power coming from the engine (graphic) the ICE/Gas engine is on, and not otherwise. So in my case the visual has been a good key.

    When I first bought the car I couldn't ever hear the engine- I had to see it visually. Its simply that quiet. I don't know if it got louder or I got better listening for it, but I can now tell when the gas engine runs with my ears. It's normally quieter than most cars, but the sound is there. And of course, I'm not talking angry bees (high RPM) which happens for me if and only if electric range hits zero.

    I'll continue to watch the forum for updates. I hope you resolve the issue and without any major problems.

  18. LAF

    LAF Active Member

    I use Sport Mode all the time around town and this never happens to me. Sport Mode really makes the car drive more enjoyable and driving around town even in sport mode I don't see major drop-off in EV miles (the same was true with my Prius).
  19. MNSteve

    MNSteve Well-Known Member

    And of course, hours after I wrote those words, I managed to start the engine in EV mode by stomping on the accelerator. Silly boy.
  20. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Not to be too much of a stickler (OK, I admit I'm being a big stickler), but you cannot start the engine in EV Drive mode. When the engine starts, you are no longer in EV Drive mode. Only when the EV icon is lit on the Driver Information Interface are you in EV Drive mode.

    When driving in ECON Mode if you press the accelerator past the detent, the Clarity switches from EV Drive mode to Hybrid Drive mode. EV Drive mode, Hybrid Drive mode, and Engine Drive mode are the Clarity's three basic drive modes that drivers cannot select using buttons. The transition from EV Drive mode to Hybrid Drive mode comes earlier in the accelerator travel--before the detent--when using the driver-selectable NORMAL and SPORT Modes. Engine Drive mode (when the engine is connected through a clutch and gears to the wheels) can occur at speeds above 41 mph (in my experience) only when HV Mode is selected to surrender mode choices to the brains (whims?) of the Clarity.
  21. MNSteve

    MNSteve Well-Known Member

    OK, to be a stickler back ... yes you can. Agreed, after you pound the accelerator you are no longer in EV mode, but at the instant that you hit it, you were. The EV icon goes out, the engine starts, and the driver swears.
  22. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member Subscriber

    I'm trying to differentiate between "EV mode" and "ECON Mode," which many posters use interchangeably.
  23. MNSteve

    MNSteve Well-Known Member

    Understood. And in my comment, I meant "both", although I suspect it made little difference other than I had to really tromp on it in ECON mode to jolt the engine into action. It irritates me when I do this. It's a habit from decades of driving traditional cars. I didn't actually need that extra bit of power, but my mind is not yet attuned to restricting my pressure on the right pedal. I suspect it never will be. "Old dogs", you know.

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