A PHEV far superior to the Clarity is coming next summer

We have yet to use all the battery for local trips (or longer because of the HV mode but that's different use) because we are retired and don't commute. We can spend the day driving around town shopping and come home with 20% left. When I was working - no way - some days I drove 200 or more miles easily.

What I see is an industry that is missing the mark. They are (most of them) so full speed ahead for pure EV that they just do not see the huge advantage PHEVs have, and will continue to have until the infrastructure for charging is expanded. I know someone will say they drove across country in a Tesla. That's nice, but not everyone drives the main routes, and not everyone has access to Tesla fast chargers.

When the time comes that we (meaning I) can no longer travel to Europe we are going to drive the U.S. and Canada. We will be driving a lot of "back roads" instead of Interstates intentionally. By then the infrastructure may be there to use an EV. But for now I will take a five minute stop for a restroom and a few gallons of gas over a half hour or more to charge a battery.

 

I agree Robert. It seems like charging away from home is still lacking for a number of reasons.
1) Not all charge stations are compatible with all BEV cars.
2) The amperage available for fast charging varies quite a bit from station to station.
3) BEV cars with very fast charge times are usually the much more expensive cars.
4) Charge stations can be occupied, and occupied for hours rather than minutes.
5) Charge stations may not be working.
6) The average BEV will take hours to recharge for a 200-300 mile follow on trip.

I really believe the existing LiOn batteries just aren't going to be the answer in the long run. Some new battery technology (and so many are working to find that solution) will cost less, charge faster, be lighter in weight, and smaller. That's when a $30,000 car will have 300 miles of range, charge in less than 15 minutes, and the batteries will last much longer. Until then it's PHEV for me. I'll just keep the Clarity until something better comes along.

 

Interesting thread so far. I still think Toyota has nailed it with the RAV4 Prime and it will be a runaway best seller. My only fear is that dealers will be able to get the MSRP for quite a while and that it will go first to ZEV states. I hope other manufactures join the PHEV SUV bandwagon in this transition decade while the charging infrastructure and batteries are developed for BEVs between now and probably about 2030.

 

We are hoping that the MSRP will fade before we are ready to buy one. After some calculating we have decided to wait a couple of more years before replacing the Sorento. As little as we drive it because we have the Clarity we find it's not that important to replace it any sooner. Unless she's out in the Clarity or I have to haul something big it just sits there looking forlorn.

I start it once week and let it run a bit to keep the battery charged. Las Vegas heat is really tough on batteries.

 

A lot may come down to howe fast Toyota's tax credit limit will be hit. Possibly in 1 to 2 years once the Rav4 Prime comes out. Rav4 hybrid sell around 10k a month. So even if 30% of them were PHEV, that's nearing 40k units a year. Toyota is over half way to the first tax credit limit.

 

The problem for manufacturers is that PHEV's cost more to produce than longer range BEV's, and that gap will continue to widen. This is compounded by CARB rules that have cut the amount of TZEV credits PHEV's earn, along with reducing the percentage cap on TZEV credits allowed.

 

The problem with battery only, for me at least, is being on road trips and trying to find a charger or finding one and it's iced. That will set me off in a very bad way.

 

Not to mention the longer warranty the manufacturer has to provide for Zev states for PHEV vehicles, which does not apply to Bev.

 

I’m sticking with my Clarity. I need it to buy me 5-7 years to see what the future of battery tech brings. The RAV4 is cool but for me it’s all about battery range. If someone makes a reasonable PHEV with 75+ mile range, that will get my attention. Buying my Clarity sucked because none of the dealers knew anything about the car nor cared to learn. With that being said this car holds amazing value and has been the best car purchase I’ve ever made. I’m extremely curious about the future of BEV/PHEV trucks and SUVs and I hope the new RAV4 is a great success and creates more awareness.

 

Same here - love my Clarity so far - year 1 coming up and have to say it's a keeper.

For the excellent price point (after all the credits, rebates, discounts), it's a hard one to beat IMO.

I don't think Toyota's RAV PHEV will offer anything as generous as the Clarity...

With the excellent battery warranty from Honda, I am planning keeping her for years so one of my kids can to take it over...

 

It's hard to find the key details for the upcoming PHEV RAV4. It certainly looks interesting to me. However, I think it's obviously not a slam dunk as a superior car. The RAV4 is likely to fall short in the two key questions for most potential electric or PHEV buyers: initial cost and range. Toyota hasn't announced either the initial price or expected range. However, based on the typical price increase seen over ICE models, hybrid additions, and PHEV additions, the probable initial price is likely to be a few thousand dollars more than the Clarity. Also, with the same battery capacity and greater power, the electric range is likely to be slightly lower than the Clarity.

There are reasons to be excited about an SUV form factor, greater clearance and visibility, AWD, and greater power and acceleration. But initial cost and electric range are both more important for most people who have already decided to buy a Clarity. Current Clarity owners likely would have held off buying a Clarity if any of the expected advantages for the upcoming RAV4 were compelling.

 

Add to the list - public charging stations are a rip-off from a cost perspective... Probably at least double the cost of charging at home.

 

My wife has a Rav 4 Hybrid. I like the car, but I don't think you can compare the ride to my clarity. They are two very different vehicles. My guess is the price for the PHEV Rav 4 will be in the upper 30's or low 40's

 

No price yet, but the Toyota website for the RAV4 Prime claims:
> When fully charged, RAV4 Prime has up to an estimated
> 39 miles of thrilling, EV-only driving.

 

I would take the Clarity over the proposed RAV4 any day and twice on Sunday. What can I say, I'm just a car guy. Mini-vans and mini-SUVs are inherently disadvantaged when it comes to performance and efficiency when compared to a sedan. That is one of the factors that drove me away from the domestic brands. Ford and Chevy are giving up on the full size car market and just want to sell SUVs. Honda is still investing in building nice full size cars. If I hadn't found such a good deal on the Clarity, and if I also didn't have charging available at work, I probably would have bought the hybrid Accord. To be fair, my other vehicle is a Chevy Silverado full size pickup, so I have that for when I need to tow or haul. My boat is too heavy to tow with small or mid size SUV.

 

In addition to the tax rebates I was pleasantly surprised that dealers in SoCal were so willing to drop the price on Clarities, but I'm sure it was at least partly because of the eccentric styling along with it being a lower demand sedan in an SUV market. I like my car but it definitely appeals to a niche market.

The RAV4 Prime is less niche and Toyota is touting it as a performance vehicle as well. I think those two factors will mean a higher MSRP than a Clarity and much less bargaining by dealers once it arrives.

I'm very happy getting a great deal on a car that most people overlook rather than paying more for a car that everyone wants.

 

Every person's needs are different. For us we want to drive electric 100% of the time around town, and use the ICE only for out-of-town trips. With our daily driving patterns that puts us in need of about 50 miles of EV range so winter achieves about 30. Our son's school is 25 miles round trip, once to take him, once to pick him up. So 50 miles with a charge between those two drives. On top of that we often put on an additional 5 to 15 miles for shopping or other short trips. We have no issue with charging two to three times each say. We do not want the ICE to come on at all.

I would rather Toyota just put additional batteries in the SUV so it could average 50 miles of EV range. I not in need of extra power or acceleration. The Clarity power is just fine.

 

Keeping our 2018 Clarity for at least 5-7 years. Main reason for getting it was to replace an Accord and able to charge at work for free. We now even drive it on the weekends (and hence once or even twice fully charge L1 overnight). But our other car is an Odyssey and used for long distance driving. Last summer we drove it cross country for 7500 miles.

At the time we got the Ody (Spring 2018) I didn't consider the Pacifica. Today I may, but still afraid of future resale value.

 

Yes, too versatile... SUVs (and pickup trucks) are used by some people not just as utility or family cars (or trucks), but as commuter cars to get to work at an office, a hospital or a McDonalds driving alone, but also as Formula 1 racing cars on the freeways. One of those morons, which on top of reckless was an incompetent driver speeding at 90 mph on a pickup, lost control after tailgating someone and almost killed my son a couple of weeks ago. Thanks God the idiot just destroyed my kid's cabut he escaped just with a bump on the head...

 

Of course! You just need to spend a bit of time watching car advertisement on TV to figure it out. It's all about SUVs and pickups, never sedans. Honda for example spends all its advertisement on CRV and the like, I don't recall seeing any advertising of the Accord or the Civic, and for sure NEVER the Clarity. I personally found it on the LA autoshow and fell in love at first glance. Had to travel to 3 dealers to get what I wanted.