2019 LEAF big battery will get 225+ mile range, cost $35,000

Discussion in 'LEAF' started by Domenick, Jan 3, 2018.

  1. Domenick

    Domenick Administrator Staff Member

    Devin S likes this.
  2. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    If Nissan doesn't put a liquid cooling system into the 2019 Leaf, then -- and I'm not kidding here -- I think Nissan execs should be examined by psychiatrists to see if they need to be committed to a mental institution.

    It would be literally insane to produce a 60 kWh, 200+ mile BEV without a liquid cooling system for the battery. It would be like deciding to build a second story onto a house which has no foundation!

    If anyone thinks I'm overstating the case, just read what was posted in June 2016 on another forum, from a 2016 30-kWh Leaf driver in the UK:

    On a recent quick two day trip from Scotland to Cheltenham and back I managed to get south without any battery overheating problems, possibly because traffic was heavy. Coming back the next evening, with the outside temp at 18C [64° F], I was running into ten bars, just short of red, after a mere two rapid charges, and starting to get seriously concerned if I could get home.

    The outside temp dropped slowly as I drove North. I reduced speed down to 60 mph, and by midnight it was about 8C outside. The car never got into the red, but I was getting very nervous.

    No charger failures at all, but I would be concerned about repeating this journey in July or August.
    (source)
     
  3. jim

    jim Active Member

    I agree. The LEAF is one of the very few Electric Vehicles with no cooling. We tried 2 LEAF ,a 2011 and a 2013. Both lost capacity so fast we turned them back in to Nissan and I said never again. In HOT Phoenix we lost 10-20% capacity each year.
    Other cars we've had since with liquid cooling have be great. I almost can't see any capacity loss. Thermal control is the key. Air cooling and of course no cooling are not sustainable. The best systems are from Tesla ,Chevy SPARK EV and Bolt and FORD Focus EV. I hope other step up and build the right vehicles with liquid cooling.
     
  4. Domenick

    Domenick Administrator Staff Member

    Argh. It's so frustrating too! I want to buy a used LEAF, but I live in Florida. I really can't afford to buy a car I can't use. Even at used LEAF prices. I'd love to get a Spark, but a) my wife says no, too small and b) my wife says no, too small. :D
     
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  5. jim

    jim Active Member

    My wife is the same way. I got her a big old 2012 S 85 very low cost used but it is so big it's hard to park, uses twice the kWh per trip and tires etc all cost much more. The SPARK EV is and was a best buy choice since it has long lasting liquid cooled batteries , a FAST Charge Port optional, plenty big enough for 4 people and most of us travel alone. It was also one of the lowest priced electrics. Too bad Chevy stopped making them. EVen the Bolt cost twice as much as a SPARK EV.
    I'd be very leery of a used LEAF with no battery cooling. The range today will not be the range tomorrow. She can know the range will be too small A,B and C.
     
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  6. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    You're not the only one who loved his or her Spark EV! But that was a compliance car, and thus sold by GM at a loss, below market value. Since GM was losing money on every unit, there was no way they would ever put it into high volume production at that price. And it was inevitable that they would cancel production as soon as GM started making a BEV which is intended to not lose money on a per-unit basis, and perhaps even make a slim profit; that BEV is the Bolt EV.
     
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  7. jim

    jim Active Member

    There maybe hope. Someone said the new 2019 LEAF w 60kWh battery also has Thermal Management, (battery cooling) if that is true it will be wonderful. Since they also have V2H Vehicle To Home it might be perfect.
     
    Domenick likes this.
  8. Alfubig

    Alfubig New Member

  9. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    "Thermal Management System (TMS)... E-Plus Version... yes"

    Hosanna
    Hey Sanna Sanna Sanna Hosanna
    Hey Sanna Hosanna...


    Assuming this is true: I'm very very glad to see that Nissan is finally putting a TMS into the Leaf! Even if it's only for a higher-trim, longer range version.

    So, no need for those Nissan execs to be examined by psychiatrists after all. ;)
    -
     
  10. Paul K

    Paul K Member

    After taking 4 years depreciation through the business I intend to replace my 2016 30kwh Leaf in 2020. I was hoping maybe there would be a bit of a contest between Tesla M3 and the 60kwh Leaf which should be out by then. My temperature issues have been the cold not the heat. The range loss this past cold spell was a bit of a shocker. Urban range down to to 110K (must use climate control for window fog) from just over 200K in summer. Moderate highway use will gain me a temp bar or two and the GOM will actually hold steady or even go up a bit but it's still a little scary. I am disappointed to learn that the M3 will not have a battery heater. This would be more of a deal breaker for me than battery cooling which so far I have not needed. While mindful of the bitter experiences in hot climates that some have had, my own experience is that I would buy from Nissan again if the product is competitive.
     
  11. marshallwa

    marshallwa New Member

    I think your main range issue is due to you using the climate control to heat the interior of your car. The only thing you can do is to get a car with the big battery so that the range issue is not as big a deal in the winter.

    However, heating the battery can be helpful too.
     
  12. Marcel_g

    Marcel_g Member

    A battery heater is required I believe, otherwise it gets wrecked when below -14C or so.

    I've much the same as Paul K with my 2017 Leaf, and there are a number of components to range loss in the winter. When it's -10C, the battery loses about 15% of its capacity, the snow tires take another 5-10%, colder air is denser, so it reduces the range too, and wet or snow covered roads also increase the resistance. And on top of that climate control usage also reduces the range, but that also depends on the length of your trip, and whether you're alone or have 3 passengers.

    When I'm alone, I can cycle the heat & defog on and off as needed, but when the whole family's in the car fogging up the windows, it has to be on all the time. Also, often the inside of the car is iced up, so I have to run the front defogger on high for 5-10 minutes to clear that up, which might take more than 0.5kwh

    So I get about 100-120 km range when it's really cold.
     
  13. Marcel_g

    Marcel_g Member

    And yes, if the 60kwh Leaf is reasonably priced I'll consider it in 2020, especially if it has a liquid TMS, although the Kia Niro EV is also looking like it could be a serious contender.
     
  14. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    There seem to be conflicting opinions on whether or not there will be any permanent damage to li-ion batteries if they are subjected to a deep freeze. But from all reports, at worst they'll suffer a bit of permanent reduction in capacity, and only in circumstances where, while warm, they were charged to a high percentage of capacity, following which the pack's temperature dropped far enough to put that level of charging above the battery's then-reduced capacity; a lowered capacity caused by very low temperatures. (Yet another reason not to charge a li-ion battery pack past 80% on a daily basis!)

    They won't be "wrecked" in the sense of being completely ruined and non-functional.

    Discussion here:

    Effect of freezing on Lithium Ion Batteries
    -
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
    Marcel_g likes this.
  15. Marcel_g

    Marcel_g Member

    Ah, ok, thanks.
     
  16. Don Q Tran

    Don Q Tran New Member

    I'm in Los Angeles, CA
    I owned a 2012 Leaf, and was able to obtain under warranty a new 24kwh battery under warranty last October 2017.
    March 10th 2018, which is for sale now because.

    I purchased a 2018 Leaf S. Base model. $29,990, PLUS $700 Destination charges, $1600 quick charge option,
    Reg / Taxes $3400, $1400 extended warranty. $37,090, - $500 dealer rebate = $36,590 Out-The-Door OTD.
    $20k down, financed $15k zero % interest. payments are $240 month. Hopefully this battery 40 kwh will last until I can get my Tesla 3 and sell this.

    I've got my deposit down for a Tesla 3, but at the rate they are manufacturing the 3, I won't see MY 3 for 7.4 years.
    Originally Tesla said 5,000 units per week, then 10,000 per week.
    Well they are only doing 1300 per week.
    My deposit number is #500,000.
    SO SOME simple math.
    500,000 / 1300 (units per week) = 384.615384615 (weeks)

    384.615384615 / 52 (weeks in a year) = 7.396449704 or 7 years and 4 months maybe. before I'll get my "3"

    I assume Elon Musk will improve the rate of manufacture but God knows when that will happen.
     
  17. Marcel_g

    Marcel_g Member

    You'll get your M3 a lot faster than that. They are consistently doing 2K / week now, and it sounds like they're heading for 4-5K/week soon.
     
  18. Don Q Tran

    Don Q Tran New Member

    well even at 2k units a week = 8000 a month, or 96,000 per year, that's 5 year wait
    well even at 4k units a week = 16,000 a month, or 192,000 per year, that's 1 1/2 year wait
    well even at 5k units a week = 20,000 a month, or 240,000 per year, that's 2 year wait
    well even at 10k units a week = 120,000 a month, or 240,000 per year, that's 4.1666 Month wait
     

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