Major gear mode issue/car turned OFF

The car can only provide full power by using both the EV motor and the gasoline engine together; it's a hybrid. Hauling a 4,000 lb car up a 22% grade requires both power systems operating at or near max power. After the climb, the battery is depleted and the ICE will run more to build back some charge into it and provide additional electricity for the electric motor to move the car.

The "burning" smell may just be fumes from a very hot engine still breaking in (lots of reports like this in the Volt world). Moving the HVAC controller to recirculation will help reduce these smells in the cabin. If the smells continue on other trips, take it in.

 

If I’m I am interpreting everything correctly (doubtful to be blunt...I am quite certain I’m not fully grasping all that has been described)...

The only thing I read here that sounds out of ordinary is engine running, while car is being driven in EV mode, with 5 bars of battery left. If this occurred, I contend it is not normal and should not have occurred.

I also think that if you take to dealer to complain about it happening, they will find nothing wrong, unable to duplicate issue, and it will be a useless visit.

So I suggest if this becomes a repeatable issue, take to dealer. Otherwise I really have little more to add, as most other behavior you described seems normal to me, and is chalked up as some misunderstandings of how the car works, and what is showing on the display at various times in various modes.

I have also said before that a racing engine at times is actually normal, though not common. And pushing mode buttons trying to make it stop only confuses the computer and throws off whatever logic it was trying to follow. I wonder if you just let it do it’s thing for 10 minutes or so, would it have recovered and settled in? We will never know. Mine always has.

Once in a while my engine races and seems to not follow logic. It’s not common but occasional. I let it...I know for a fact that it is very healthy and good for any engine to do so at times. And if it’s ignored for a short time, I find it settles back in and sounds normal and back to loafing at low rpms soon enough. The car always drives normal regardless of engine noises, so I see no reason to interrupt it and I’ve never attempted changing modes just because the engine turns on unexpectedly. I assume it needs to run and I simply trust it and let it run. After some time it shuts down.

Possible maintenance mode of some type? I admit I’m guessing.

And I’m now fully convinced that not one thing described has anything to do with gear mode...at all. So be sure you don’t use that term with the dealer, or they will completely be led astray looking for the wrong issue...as many of us were thrown off here.

 

Yes I think maybe the engine was trying to “do something”...and I admit I have no idea what. Charge the battery to a certain level? Maintenance mode of some type? Bug in the programming? Then you shut it down, and shortly after restart the computer began the process of repeating whatever it was attempting to do before you interrupted it.

And I only think that. I don’t know that. Pure speculation on my part. There is a fair amount of logic in this car that many of us do not have our heads wrapped fully around, and I also believe there are some little gremlins in there that rear their heads at odd times for some people. Until they become repeatable or store error codes, no dealer will be able to resolve it. This is still a low volume, experimental car. We are all beta testers. It’s a little wierd.

 

Many people find that the engine speed not being related to the position of the gas pedal or directly tied to speed/acceleration is disconcerting and think there is something wrong with the car when it is indeed functioning as designed.
The Clarity Engine is an Atkinson cycle design - which is very efficient when running at high speed/rpm, but at a cost of lowered efficiency at low speed. Running at high rpm's is the engines "happy place" and the most efficient use of fuel. Honda designed the Clarity to take advantage of enhanced efficiency at high RPMs.
The OP did not report any power loss (as others have), just the high revving motor noise.

 

Yes, I realize this. What you're not taking into account is each bar represents "x" miles and that "x" can vary due to efficiency and usage.

In HV mode, the computers typically set a small operating range for the battery and use the gasoline generator to keep it in that zone as much as possible. Unfortunately, the car isn't smart enough (yet) to know there's a huge 22% grade ahead to prepare for. So when the electric motor starts sucking the juice out the battery at a massive rate, the ICE starts running hard to make up for that depletion. Since you still ended up with 5 bars, it's was doing it's job but you/ya'll (I'm a Texan I can say ya'll) didn't like the sound of it.

I've only been to SF a couple of times so I don't know the area but is there another route you can take that avoids the particular hard climb? If so, on the next similar type of trip try that route and see what happens.

99% of the cases, if you don't have trouble lights on the dash (meaning trouble codes stored in the computers), taking it to the dealership is a waste of your time.

 

I would think it was trying to do maximum battery charging, in addition to what you were getting from regen. Now why it thought it needed maximum battery charging at that moment is hard to say. I always try and remind myself that the car is essentially driving blind, it goes only by "feel". Yes there are cameras for LKAS and such, and yes maybe NAV is running, but those are separate systems, the power system only lives for the moment, based somewhat on past experience with this particular "rider" and it is trying to predict, completely blindly, what is coming next. And of course when I say "it" I am really referring to software designers who have to sit in a room and imagine a nearly infinite number of scenarios, including someone driving up Divisadero street after driving in from Tahoe, on a battery that is not quite empty yet but getting there. As far as the computer knows you were starting up Pikes Peak. Probably at times the computer is overcautious, but again that is easier said from our viewpoint with our eyes and ears and knowledge of San Francisco streets and also knowing what our next turn will be and where we will be driving next.

I sometimes think that in the future there will be smarter PHEV's that integrate the drive system with the cameras and NAV so that it can make better decisions about battery and power management. Until then.....

Some people say, not always politely in these type of discussions, well then you should be driving an EV. I think saying it that bluntly isn't always helpful, but I think there is a point that a PHEV is a hybrid, and that the system has to make constant decisions between efficiency and giving us the EV only driving that we expect when we have what we think is enough battery charge.

I have no doubt that the high engine revs are the most efficient at that moment. We tend to equate high revs with something being wrong, or even harmful to the engine, which is understandable because it is loud, and not what we are used to hearing in a normal car except maybe a Mustang showing off. I don't drive a stick shift very often anymore, when I do I worry more about under-revving which harms an engine, and knowing that I am somewhat out of practice I lean a little more toward over-revving, which might use a little more fuel but doesn't harm the engine (I'm not talking about redlining it). But when someone is riding with me, I notice that they could care less when I accidentally lug the engine, but if I over-rev even for a few seconds they think I have just killed the car.

Dedicated hybrids are certainly different cars, for one thing the ICE engine is not-typical, it's an Atkinson cycle engine, a type of engine that is extremely efficient due to its unusual power-stroke, but if you put one in a regular non-hybrid car people would go crazy because it is not the smooth quite engine we have grown accustomed to.

I'm sure the engineers could have put an RPM limit on the car to keep us from becoming anxious, just as they could have used normal rear fender skirts. But they seem to have been given a mandate to lean towards efficiency, not normalcy, yet meanwhile without skimping on weight that affects passenger comfort and quietness. Ironically it's the quietness that makes us even more aware that we have a lawnmower under the hood.

That being said, a few rare people have had problems with ICE running way too often, but with just one incident, or even an occasional few, your car is likely operating as designed.

 

I'm curious about in which mode your Clarity was operating when your problems occurred: ECON, NORMAL, or SPORT? SPORT Mode will start the engine earlier in the accelerator pedal's travel than NORMAL and NORMAL will start the engine earlier in the pedal's travel than ECON.

The Clarity does not have any mode that guarantees the engine will remain dormant. In ECON, NORMAL, or SPORT mode, the engine will always start if you press the accelerator pedal far enough. That way, you always have access to maximum power when you need it without having to worry about pushing a button in the heat of the moment. I like ECON Mode because it is the only one where the accelerator pedal click lets you feel how far you can press without activating the engine. If you haven't experienced the mechanical pedal click, you can feel it even when the Clarity is turned off by pressing the accelerator hard enough to go through the click and get the pedal to the floor.

Also, as has been noted, once the engine starts up, it will stay on long enough to bring it up to its normal operating temperature. It would not be good for the engine to start and stop over and over without warming up its oil. That's why you shouldn't turn off the car to get back to EV Drive mode.

Unfortunately, it is the case that some people's Clarity PHEVs keep running the engine far longer than needed to bring it up to its normal operating temperature. Also, some people's Clarity PHEVs start the engine for unknown reasons. Honda dealers have never determined any of these Clarity PHEVs has a problem, so it's very perplexing.

 

First, I wish there was a double or triple like for @JCA’s post #18. It is spot on.
Second, when the ICE comes on, the Power Gauge will go all white every time since there is no EV Mode. The ICE will cycle off periodically and give you some blue and you can see the white creep downwards. You will stay in EV with the ICE off until you go past the white or you deplete the SOC that HV Mode is trying to approximately maintain.
Third, for the sake of truth, justice, and the American way, please don’t call it gear mode any more. My head still hurts from trying to figure out all your posts. “Gear mode” is slang for Engine Drive Mode as @insightman reminds us. As explained above, it’s when the ICE is mechanically clutched to the drive train and has only one gear ratio, so it can never rev up enough to give you the angry bees.
Fourth, if you still feel your Clarity’s algorithm is acting up, you can do a hard reset by disconnecting the negative terminal of the 12v battery. This has cleared up some electronic “hiccups” for some.
And lastly, as mentioned above, if the burning smell persists, have it looked at. Mine only gave a hint of that the very first time the ICE ran and never did that again, but then I have never gotten the angry bees.

 

I too have learned to give the car it's head when it chooses to run the ICE. This very evening it made this choice for no "good" reason that I could discern. I had driven about 40 miles to Burlington from Montpelier over the Green Mountains, puttered around doing some errands and plugged in at the Mall to give me enough juice to get to the dance and return home.

After charging at 240 for a couple of hours, I got in with a full battery and started to drive out of the garage. This was on the total flat, but I did have to apply the brakes to stop when leaving the garage. The ICE started immediately. I let it go on until it got over itself and we arrived at the dance. After the dance, I drove home totally ICE free.

Thinking back I realized that the last time I drove to Burlington and charged at 240, I had the same experience, although then it was up a steep hill after the charge, but again I did have to apply the brakes when leaving the garage.

Maybe this relates to an observation that has been puzzling me for some time. The forum is full of complaints from folks whose ICE turns on first thing when they leave their homes in the morning, drive downhill and apply regen or the brakes. Since owning my car, I have never had this experience despite living on a hill applying regen or brakes every time I take the car out.

Why does the ICE never turn on? My theory is that, because I charge the car on 110 beginning immediately when I get home and generally do not take it out until well after it has finished charging, it has sat around long enough to lose just enough charge to leave space for the regen.

My alternative theory is that in the instances that the ICE has turned on when driving immediately after charging the battery at 240, it is to cool the battery which is still heated from charging.

Thoughts?

 

If we ever find out that ICE is being turned on to cool the battery there is going to be an angry mob with torches and pitchforks.

 

My CMax will do this: warm temperatures, after a 240v charge, warm to hot battery (have a gauge reading it) at the first stop sign on my flat neighborhood street= engine on to soak up excess regen.

Now the million dollar question: is the engine actually running (burning fuel) or is it simply being spun by the electric motor to burn off this extra electrical power from the regen?

My hypothesis is the first time it will use fuel to warm up the ICE in case it is needed. If there is a second or additional heavy regen scenarios immediately after the warmup cycle, the ICE is just spun and not run. I don't have the hills to test this. According to my scanguage, my cmax does burn fuel at the end of my block and because I don't need regen again for a few miles and thus have enough room in the battery for regen by then, I reboot the car (off/on) and continue my drive in pure EV.

LOL

 

To your knowledge can this be turned off? I consider this to be an extremely dangerous "feature". If you are in the process of being carjacked and the carjacker is holding the door open you cannot drive away. Stupid stupid stupid idea.

 

This pretty far down on my list of likely events.
If is something that happens with relative frequency where you tend to park your car, I'd do a couple of things:
1) Make a habit of closing and locking your doors immediately upon entering the car
2) Set the default door locking to "Shift from P" (just in case you forget #1)

Would also help to never park without a clear path in front of the car (always back in to parking spots?). This would help immensely if you do need to drive off during a car-jacking as shifting to reverse and backing out of a parking place during a car-jacking would be difficult - even more so if the car door was being held open by the perpetrator (hypothetical with the Clarity, but if your other vehicles allow for driving with the door open, best not to do it in reverse which would propel the thief into the vehicle and the open door could easily snag on adjacent vehicles while reversing).

And situational awareness goes a long way in ensuring your own safety when returning to a parked car - and when parking aim for well lit and busier areas.

 

In the winter, my ICE never started when I went down the mile long hill from my house... Now that it is warm, I have had it start on 3 or 4 different trips. All winter, I had some heat on, and probably used enough juice to allow regen.

I am not sure people understand the amount of energy used by the heater when they say 'everything is exactly the same'. (except the amount of heat)

My ICE will also come on with a hard brake event. Even if it is very short period of braking. It seems like the level of charge in the battery does not matter when I hit the brakes a little too hard.

 

Unfortunately, there are lot of people who've been run over by their vehicles with many killed thinking they had put the transmission in P or for some reason it moves out of P. With no engine running in hybrid or BEV, this safety step is necessary and not employing it would easily be seen by any court/lawyer as manufacturer negligence.

 

So Kentucky Ken helped me with high RPM issues on my car. I did a reboot (disconnect 12v battery) then drove the car with alarms present until it settled back to normal. My car will still do high RPM as necessary, but seems to find better equilibrium post 'reboot.'

My meaning is that I can now be at 0 EV range, and yes the car is a little less pleasant but no 'angry bees'. Some relatively high-RPM yes, angry bees, no. And yes, prior to reboot 'angry bees' were a frequent experience for me.

From these forums, and from cellular forums I also follow (i.e. howard forums), but not so much from actual travel, I've come to understand that mountains and hills everywhere you go isn't everyone's normal-- even if it is mine. From my point of view Oregon is relatively flat compared to say Alaska, but apparently we're quite hilly compared to many places. Same goes for Washington and California.

Anyway, my point being that a person say in Kansas owning this car will have a vastly different experience than someone in California/Nevada. I also find turning up the tunes helps when high RPMs come on. I think just knowing you're not hurting the car also helps a bunch.

-Dan

PS: Although a few have reported power loss, despite some unpleasant sounds, my car has *never* had power loss that I can detect.

 

I would think that's also temperature related. High charge rates create more heat than lower charge rates. My guess is that when the battery is hot the system avoids heavy regen even if there is plenty of room for it.

I didn't realize it did that, now that's one less button for me to push. I almost always have Brake Hold on (wish it could be set as default) so currently when I arrive and come to a stop I just have to push the power button. Now I don't even need to do that I just have to open the door. Cool.