Fuel Pump Recall - Long Wait for New Parts

There is a big difference between having a normal number of the newer pumps in stock for repairs and having a much larger number of the new pumps to replace all the older pumps. And, the current stock of the newer pumps is probably from earlier production runs and another production run (or runs) is needed to have enough for the recall replacements. Thus, a small number of new parts may be produced and made available each month. Furthermore, the pump supplier also needs to produce the pumps with the updated impeller for a much larger number of all the other Honda models which are subject to the recall. Perhaps the replacement pump will have an "A02" or other part number but, rememeber that the 2020 and 2021 Clarities are not subject to the recall with the A01 pump.

So, give Honda a break as I suspect they are doing the best they can and may be saving any newer pumps right now to replace pumps that fail (although one poster said that his dealer could not get a replacement).

 

Do you know what differentiates the A01 from the A00? Does it in fact use a different impeller design? If it doesn’t, it could be just as prone to failure as the A00.

Reported problems trigger recalls. Since the A01 has been in service for less time than the A01, it is possible that the A01 could be subject to a recall in a year or two.

Unless you can verify the impeller design on the A01, we’re all just speculating as to what part meets Honda’s approval to fix the recalled part.

I’m not criticizing Honda. Perhaps they know more than we do when they tell us the part is not available.

 

I did not say that the A01 pump had a "fixed" impeller. I do not know. Landmark said that the A01 pump was for the 2020-2021 Clarities which are not subject to the recall. So, it is not unreasonable to assume that the A01 pump does not have an impeller which fails or the 2020-2021 Clarities would have been subject to the recall (if Landmark is correct in saying that that the 2020-2021 Clarities have the A01 part). It is not just reported failures for a given model year which trigger recalls. It is also having a part that has a history of failing.

Just asking the question "Is Honda feeding us a load of crap..." with that language is, at the very least, implied criticism. And, not available for the recall purposes is not that same as not available for repairs.

 

Where did I say that you said the A01 pump had a “fixed” impeller?

We’ll have to disagree on what constitutes criticism. We can agree that you “don’t know” and are basing your statements on assumptions and suspicions. Thank you for the clarification.

Perhaps you could clarify how a part could have a history of failures, without those failures being reported.

 

So my 2018 PHEV Clarity Touring model just broke down in the middle of the highway. While it was driving, my engine check light started blinking, and the car started rumbling a bit, and the car stalled to a stop in the highway. I had to get it towed to the nearest Honda dealer, and they said that this is probably due to the Fuel Pump recall from recent. They also told me they have no clue at all when they might get the part, the same with every single dealership Ive called within a 50 mile radius. Mind you, this is my daily school commute vehicle, and I asked for a for a loaner car until my clarity gets fixed. They did not have any loaner cars, nor did any other loaner car, and even if they did, none of them could possibly loan one out to me, without a set end date in mind, since the dealers also dont know when they will receive the part. Thus, the only thing I can do is go through Corporate Honda, wait til my case gets to a case manager (my case will get excalated to the highest priority since it actually broke down while driving, as opposed to someone coming with a fully working car because they heard about the recall) and just wait til they call, which is what I am waiting for now.

Just thought I would share this experience there!

 

Was there any discussion about installing either the A00 or A01 pump as a means of getting the car back on the road?

 

How many miles do you have in the car?

 

I am curious to know if your school commute requires the engine to run for every trip, and/or do you rely on hybrid mode in other words full-time engine operation? If you do run on battery exclusively for part of your trip, do you put the car in hybrid mode before it would automatically do so at full battery discharge? In light of how suddenly the problem occurred, I'm strongly inclined to switch to hybrid mode at around 2/3 the battery capacity remaining to ensure I have enough battery-only mode to go to a nearby dealer, etc. or at least get off the highway. I wonder if the engine failing (fuel starvation) cripples the vehicle; would that condition possibly not let the car use the battery exclusively? If I know my trip is going to exceed the available battery capacity I prefer to run it with at least half of the capacity remaining because it calms the "angry bees"!

 

Good question as to whether not the car can operate in EV with a failed fuel pump. Seems like it should be able to do that, although the CEL may need to be reset. The driver would need to control acceleration so as not to trigger the ICE and the commute distance would need to be less than the EV range. Charging at school/work could be beneficial.

I’d recommend the OP be proactive on this matter and not wait for a return call from Honda. Their inability or refusal to repair the vehicle, even if they have to use a part that is known to be defective, is depriving the OP of an education/livelihood. Sounds dramatic, but sometimes a dealer needs a little motivation.

 

Tentative confirmation that a fuel-starved Clarity plug-in hybrid will run on battey propulsion exclusively.
Can you drive on empty tank in a Clarity?
Of course if the car explicitly detects a failed fuel pump that may exhibit different behavior then if it determines that the fuel tank level is "empty"

 

I have a long interstate trip planned well before they'll get the replacement pumps in. Anybody here experienced the failure, and if so, at how many miles?

 

As I posted earlier, the Honda fuel pump issue is not so much mileage related but time since production related. The Honda TSB 23-103 on this matter states:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2023/RCSB-23V858-7186.PDF

"Affected vehicles may be equipped with a fuel pump module manufactured with low density impellers. The low density impellers may absorb fuel over time and deform. If an impeller deforms to a point that it creates sufficient interference with the fuel pump body, the fuel pump can become inoperative, which may cause the symptoms listed above and/or illumination of the Malfunction Indicator Lamp in the instrument panel."

The NHTSA Part 573 Safety Recall Report, 23V-7186, for this matter says that Clarities produced from Jul 18, 2017 to Aug 22, 2019 are subject to this safety recall.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2023/RCLRPT-23V858-1287.PDF

From this forum and other sources, it appears that 2018 Clarities are starting to become affected by this issue. Since Clarities produced after August 22, 2019 are not subject to this safety recall, one can hope that the fuel pump for 2020 and on Clarities (A01 part number suffix) is not afected by this problem. A quick look at the Honda Parts (Honda Dream Shop) website shows that this A01 fuel pump is available at this time. One can assume that this A01 fuel pump could be used to replace an original fuel pump that goes bad but this is only an assumption.

LeoP

 

I have no experience to offer, but your question makes me think about Honda and what their obligation should be...

This affects 2.6 million vehicles. Honda is certainly painfully aware of the particulars of this failure. They no doubt have a good understanding of the exact failure mechanism and the likelihood of an individual vehicle encountering this failure during the period prior to when they can get started on a serious replacement program.

To me, (especially since there is this significant delay), Honda should be obligated to educate us more thoroughly than just telling us to wait until sometime indeterminate time in the fall before this can get addressed.

Although I have no real basis for this, my instinct is that this has to be a relatively low probability of occurrence, If 1 in a thousand vehicles has a problem before the fall, that would mean that around 2,600 Honda's would fail and become disabled on the side of the road.

Personally, I would not hesitate to go on a road trip... It just seems like we will not be seeing 2,600 dead Honda's on the side of the road, and I can be comfortable with a 1 in 1000 chance of a failure...

Of course, I completely made up these numbers, but I think there would be more of a panic to get this corrected sooner if the likelihood was more than very low.

 

According to Honda warranty records, the failure rate so far in the US is just under 2 per 1000 for all models at the end of last year.

LeoP

 

The only thing I'd recommend if concerned at all is to hold like 85% of the battery on a long interstate trip. If the car stalls at all, maybe you can switch to EV before complete shutdown and drive on EV to a Honda dealership or at least somewhere where you can safely be towed to one. I've got an upcoming 750 mile round trip planned and will probably lean toward holding most of the battery until close to each end of the trip where I can recharge.

 

Went to dealer for A01 maintenance today. He asked me if I had received the letter from Honda. I asked the service specialist if he was aware of any car coming to the dealership with a failure related to this recall. He said NO. That NO included all gas-only Accords, Civics etc. And they service a lot of cars.

 

Seconding @coutinpe ... the service manager at the dealership here said that he hadn't seen any failures of the fuel pump in any of the cars related to this recall.

 

I also went to the Honda dealer to see what they would offer for the car. While waiting, I headed to the parts counter to ask about the availability of a pump for the recall. The answer was that there is not a part available. We discussed both pumps, A00 and A01, and concluded between us that either part would most likely make for a successful repair of a failed pump. However, neither of us knows if either pump, or more specifically, the A01, meets Hondas standard for a warranty replacement. The A01 is available, yet I was told there is no part available for a warranty claim.

A few steps away, in the service department, the same questions were asked and nearly identical conversations were had. One piece of information provided by the service advisor was that, for this type of repair, they disassemble the fuel pump module and replace only the motor and impeller assembly. This is because they know specifically which component has failed, or will/may fail, so only that component is replaced. Prior to the recall, or on any other vehicle not subject to a fuel pump recall, a failed fuel fuel pump would be repaired with a complete fuel pump module, because the cause of failure was yet to be determined. No one in the service department had the answer to whether or not the motor and impeller assembly that we are waiting on for warranty claims is the same as what is used in the A01 module. When the part becomes available it will undoubtedly have a different part number than either fuel pump module, so its origins may remain a mystery.