Does your household rely solely on EVs?

Will you Bimmercode your i3-REx's gas tank from the software-limited 1.9 gallons up to its actual 2.4-gallon capacity before you leave Palm Beach?

 

Yes. I will also enable manual starting of the REx at 75% SOC.

I am on the fence about getting a 2.5 gal, spare gas container. On the way home Sunday night some segments did not have open 24 hr gas stations. The spare can will easily bridge these gaps.

Bob Wilson

 

I have an ID4, a Subaru Outback, and an F150 (not lightning). The outback will probably go with my son to college later.

So 1 EV and 2 ICE. Where I live it just isn't possible to go pure EV, not if you want to get anywhere. The charging networks still just either don't exist or are lousy (EA!). We need a lot more out here in the remote parts of the west. To go from my house to my mom's in AZ is nomrally an 8 hr drive. Taking an EV would add 2+ hrs, ASSUMING an EA station isn't down - which they often are. So I take an ICE. And if you want to go camping or exploring NV, forget EV. There is nothing.

And on the truck topic, I just don't see pure EV as an option if you tow / head to remote parts of the west. Chevy (may) hit 450 miles (so 200+ towing) but at what cost? I can buy an XL that can tow across country for $40k - but you want a EV truck that can tow even 200 miles, and you are looking at 100 grand! I'm actually thinking a range extended BEV truck would be better. Give me a 6.5 ft bed, a ~100 kWh pack, and a small range extender in the hood. I'd gladly give up the Frunk. But everyone's use case will be different. I use my truck for camping, exploring, and towing. 0-60 in 2 seconds just doesn't appeal to me, and neither does spending 100k for a truck.

 

Kona EV, Niro EV, Sold the Sonata PHEV about a year ago. Full disclosure, I have an RX-8 in the back yard, which I need to get running and get rid of. I've made numerous long trips in the Niro, several shorter ones in the Kona. Frankly, if you travel a lot, I'd go with a PHEV, but if you don't mind 45 minute pit stops every few hours fully electric is fine. In particular if your trips are under 'two tanks of electrons' it's not really a big deal, if you can plug in when you get where you are going. So if you are going to visit family/friends or a location with a 240v outlet or L2 charger, It's simply not a problem. You can even get by with an L1 if your not really driving much for a couple days, albeit at 1kw it might take 2-3 (full) days to get a full charge.

 

Our family has 3 cars, 2 full EVs and 1 PHEV. I love the EVs, but don't want to be bothered with charging on road trips, so the PHEV is for our long trips.

 

Which BEVs do you have? With my I6, a road trip would be faster than an ICE car or PHEV because of its range and fast charging speed.

 

This always made sense to me. PHEVs can get you more electrified than numbers like “40 mile electric range” suggest.


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This is a good attitude. My backup, 2017 BMW i3-REx won't be a road trip only car as I like to plan both a Tesla EV and gas powered BMW trip. There are times and routes when gas prices make the BMW a better cross country choice.

BTW, I changed my vote to 'multiple EVs' since the purchase of my 2017 BMW i3-REx went through. It is an EV that carries its own, independent, gas powered charging station. There is no mechanical connection from the 630 cc motorcycle engine and the drive wheels. The ICE drives a generator that brilliantly sustains the battery charge.

Bob Wilson

 

The i3 REx is a PHEV, albeit a very unique one. It’s a great concept, I wish there were more options like that.

How far do you get on a tank of gas? With the small tank I would guess around 100 miles? Is stopping for gas every 100 miles really more convenient than stopping to charge your Tesla ever 200 miles?


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If the gas engine is not connected to the drivetrain I'd agree with @bwilson4web and say it's an EV with built-in gas generator. I also never considered the Chevy Volt to be an EV because the gas engine is on the drivetrain.

 

My argument for calling it a PHEV is because you can add propulsion energy in two ways - by charging or by adding gasoline. In terms of energy sources it is a hybrid. Personally I have a hard time calling a vehicle that can burn gas an EV rather than a hybrid.

In terms of motivation, it is just an EV. That makes in rather unique. The Volt did have a mode in which the gas engine could drive it forward, at least in the first gen. It was done for efficiency (one less energy conversion in which to incur losses).


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https://www.nissan-global.com/EN/INNOVATION/TECHNOLOGY/ARCHIVE/E_POWER/

Here is another example of a series hybrid. In this case, I think they were HEV; you could not plug the car in to charge it. Definitely not an EV, despite only the electric motor driving the wheels.


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I don't have hard metrics for my 2017 BMW I3- REx. The delivery trip will let me get some hard numbers. But for the previous 2014:

• 72 mi EV only
  • typically used only around town
• 39 MPG @70 mph for 2.3 gal ... 90 miles max
  • With a 2.5 gal spare can, 188 miles max
  • Using just battery after spare can, 238 mi max.

The BMW i3-REx charges at 45-50 kW or 171-190 mi/hr charging. It reaches 50 kW near the end when the battery voltage has risen enough to be 50 kW. Then the rate drops down in the last 10% to limit overcharging. Worse, the CCS-1 chargers have been both unreliable and expensive!

Cross country in the BMW, drive from truck stop to truck stop for rapid gas and very quick biology break. You fill the tank in seconds, park, and pee in a hurry.

The 2.5 gal spare tank is only used when taking roads with sparse truck stops and limited 24 hr gas stations. Then you also have 70-75% of the battery remaining which in the 2017 should be at least another 70 miles.

A subtle trick, in high hill country, you motor up grade on the ICE sustaining the battery ... go up like a heavy semi-trailer truck. Then on the downgrade, regenerative braking puts extra charge in the battery. Normally the ICE-generator just sustains the battery level but regenerative braking going downgrade can stuff 2-3% charge into the battery.

I forgot to mention coding the car:

• increase gas electronic shutoff from 1.9 to 2.3 gallons
• allow manual REx start at 75% SOC instead of waiting for 6%, California rules.

Bob Wilson

 

I don't see that as being the case. The only propulsion is electricity. There just happens to be an on-board system for generating electricity for recharging. When I plug my MINI Cooper SE into an EVSE it could be solar-, wind-, hydro-, or fossil fuel-generated electricity. But the vehicle itself only drives on electricity.

 

What Nissan models in the USA used this drivetrain?

So just carrying a portable generator in my Tesla Model 3 (or any EV) suddenly transforms it into a hybrid?

The EPA lists my BMW i3-REx as a PHEV. For the purposes of this poll, I treat it an EV that carries its own, fast DC charger.

So if I disable the Rex, does that make it an EV? If I never used the REx around town, does that make it an EV?

Bob Wilson

 

The engineering practice of 'source selection' provides a way to quantify products to see how well they meet the requirements. Having owned a 2017 Prius Prime and 2014 BMW i3-REx and currently a 2019 Model 3, we can now compare the Prius Prime, a true PHEV, to my recently purchased 2017 BMW i3-REx:

• ICE mechanical link to drive wheels: Prime=100%; BMW=0%; Model_3=0%
• Battery capacity: Prime=8kWh; BMW=27kWh; Model_3=55kWh
• EV range: Prime=25mi; BMW=116mi; Model_3=240mi
• Charging rate: Prime=3.6kw; BMW=50kW; Model_3=178kW
• Gas tank usable: Prime=10gal; BMW=1.9gal; Model_3=0gal

So now we can use the same criteria to determine how much the BMW corresponds to either a known PHEV Prius Prime or Tesla Model 3:

• ICE mechanical link to drive wheels: BMW=100% EV
• Battery capacity: BMW=50% EV
• EV range: BMW=48% EV
• Charging rate: 28% EV
• Gas tank usable: 19% ICE

The 2017 BMW i3-REx is 19% PHEV and 226% EV, an 11.9 times more EV than PHEV.

Bob Wilson

 

None in the US that I am aware of. They did sell them elsewhere, like their home market of Japan. Doesn’t change the fact that it is a HEV with pure electric propulsion.

No. Your Tesla only accepts energy in the form of electricity. It doesn’t matter if it comes from a portable gas generator, the local grid mix, rooftop solar, or a zero point energy generator. When it hits the car, it must be in the form of electricity.

No, it will be a PHEV that you aren’t taking full advantage of. I could have done the same thing with the CMax Energi I used to have. Let the car run out of gas and then only run it on electricity. It would still be a PHEV. Very few people would then claim it is an EV.

You have stated your opinion, to which you are entitled. I don’t expect you to change your mind.

I have stated mine which differs from yours, but aligns with the EPA.




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