Canadian owners unite for pre-conditioning!

Discussion in 'Hyundai Ioniq 5' started by v2l, Sep 23, 2022.

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  1. v2l

    v2l New Member

    I'm not the original author of this but wanted to help spread it. It appears that as of now Norway, Finland, Denmark, Austria, Switzerland, Germany and possibly the UK have pre-conditioning updates available for 2022 models, many of them free. Hyundai Canada is saying we won't get it because of 'technical limitations' when we have the same cars as those countries and we all have battery heaters included. In the US the battery heater is only in the AWD which makes it the only country where it would make any sense whatsoever to not issue the update and I think they should still do it there based on VIN or as a paid request etc.

    Wanted to put a call out for all Canadian owners of the 2022 Ioniq that care about the lack of the battery pre-conditioning update coming to Canada to start making noise by emailing Hyundai and their dealerships or even EV news/youtube places in the attempt to highlight to Hyundai how much of an issue this is.

    In an attempt to explain why this is a problem I created the below FAQ. If you read this and feel inclined I ask that you get involved with escalating the complaints so they hopefully we will eventually be heard.

    I believe all of the below is generally correct, at least in a general basis - please don't spend energy pointing out small typo's or incorrection's when that energy can go towards complaining to Hyundai instead upload_2022-9-23_10-45-14.gif

    What is battery pre-conditioning?

    Battery pre-conditioning is a feature that almost all modern EV's have to warm the battery so that its ready to fast-charge. Without warming, in colder months (think below 20 degrees celsius) the car will take much longer to charge - typically at least twice to three times longer.

    Typically conditioning is enabled through the Nav system, such that when you navigate to a EV fast charger the car will automatically start warming the battery before you get there so thats its prepped and ready to charge as fast as possible

    Why do I care?

    Without it the time to fast charge in winter will take 2-3 times as long, and cost 2-3 times as much! (in Canada we get charged per minute not per kwh).

    We dont have many fast chargers in Canada, the slower we charge the longer the queues and the worse it is for everyone. The 18 minute 10-90% charging times of our cars was a highly publicized and is a highly sort after feature. Being not able to use it for 4-5 months (or more!) of the year frankly sucks

    Don't we already have this?

    You have the hardware but not the software. All Canadian car's come with a battery heater but no mechanism to turn it on in advance of getting to a charger. It will turn on when you start to fast charge but it's basically too late by then to make any difference in charging times.

    You also have something called "winter mode" but this has been proven to do basically nothing to help DC fast charging

    Sure, but why would Hyundai develop this for us?

    Actually they already have. The hard work is done, the feature is already developed. 2023 models are getting it as default and in Europe (Norway etc) the software update is already being offered to upgrade 2022 cars.

    So why is Hyundai Canada not rolling it out then?

    Good question, in the US this seems to be a cost decision as it may take an hour to update the software and dealers apparently do not want to support their customers! The response from Hyundai Canada that i received is:

    "due to technical limitations, the 2022 IONIQ 5 models will not be able to receive the update to enable battery preconditioning"

    With zero details on what the technical limitation is - I have asked and will update this if I ever hear back but it seems pretty clear that their are no hardware limitations to allow this feature to be rolled out given their is no difference between European cars and Canadian ones. Therefore it must be similar to the US in that dealers or Hyundai themselves simply are unwilling to do so.

    How can I help?

    Make a fuss! start complaining, sending emails etc. Even if you all spend 15-20 minutes of your time crafting a email it will be our best shot of showing Hyundai that this is unfair to its customer base.

    Hyundai launched the Ioniq 5 as one of the first cars behind their "Ioniq" EV brand - they need to support their customers and show that they are willing to add features of importance to its EV's across all countries they sell them in.

    Suggestions of places to complain to

    1. Hyundai Canada directly - here Help Centre | Hyundai Canada
    2. Your local dealership and/or dealership contact, where you paid for the car.
    3. Relevant EV news outlets.
    4. Anything else you can think of!
     
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  3. 5,665 signatures so far, another one couldn't hurt. Ionic 5 and EV added to the petition. I brought up this very subject a few months back as well regarding Kona EV;)
     
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  4. Canadianbrand

    Canadianbrand New Member

    My Canaidian car does have winter mode for the battery.
     
    electriceddy likes this.
  5. I don't mean to stray OT, but the issue is well stated by @v2l above regarding the DC charging cost. Either a manual (or tied to Nav) pre-heat option would be beneficial to increase the pack temp to at least a little over 5 degrees C MINUMUM.
    The winter mode limitations are kindly provided by @herode10 - note the SOC and temperature required to have it automatically operate...less than impressive, assuming the same for Ionic 5;)
     
  6. v2l

    v2l New Member

    Here's a good template for US residents from another forum. The orginal poster said he's already gotten a call back saying they will look into it further so now is the time to put the pressure on.

    I emailed the following:

    Dear Mr. [INSERT NAME]

    I purchased an AWD Hyundai Ioniq 5 SEL (VIN [INSERT YOUR VIN]) in [INSERT DATE]. One of the important (and highly advertised) feature of the Ioniq 5 is the fast charging, which can charge the car from 10-80% in <20 minutes. The window tag on my car states that the car has a “Battery Pre-Heating System & Heat Pump.” I was surprised to discover that in “cold" conditions (<65F) the charging of the car is substantially slower. In very cold (below freezing) conditions the car can take up to three times longer to charge. This can result in a one hour charging time in the winter from 10-80%. Which makes this car difficult to use in a road trip in the winter!

    I was pleased to see that recently Hyundai Norway, Germany, Finland, and Poland were notifying owners that a firmware update was available to update the battery (BMS) system to enable navigation-based preheating. Owners in these countries are reporting this takes about one hour of dealership time to update the system. This update apparently turns on the already-present battery heating system shortly before navigating to a fast charger. This enables the Ioniq 5 to charge closer to max rate in very cold conditions. Furthermore Hyundai USA has been shipping 2022 Ioniq 5 manufactured after June 2022 with this functionality.

    I have written a ticket ([INSERT A HYUNDAI TICKET]) asking when Hyundai USA will enable early 2022 owners to get their battery (BMS) firmware update to bring us to feature parity with post June 2022 Ioniq 5 owners and seemingly all European Ioniq 5 owners. I understand that dealership technician time is not free and would personally be willing to pay for the update. I was disheartened to receive a canned generic answer. I hope you can help provide a more concrete timeline when early USA owners will be able to receive the update. Winter is coming!

    Early owners of a new car line are frequently evangelists for the brand and I feel it would be cruel and counterproductive of Hyundai USA to punish these early owners.

    Thank you,
    [INSERT YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS]


    I sent it to these three people in Hyundai USA as I'm not very confident the generic customer care process is getting beyond "canned answers". I'd appreciate if anyone can post the contact info for the Canadian equivalents.

    Primary Contact
    John Gramata
    Senior Group Manager, Customer Care
    10550 Talbert Avenue
    Fountain Valley, CA 92708
    [email protected]

    Secondary Contact
    Barry Ratzlaff
    Vice President, Customer Satisfaction, Hyundai Motor America
    10550 Talbert Ave
    Fountain Valley, CA 92728-0850
    [email protected]

    Chief Executive
    Jose Munoz
    President and CEO, Hyundai Motor America
    10550 Talbert Ave
    Fountain Valley, CA 92708
    (714) 965-3000
    [email protected]
     
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  8. Hyundai Canada punts you right back to the dealer. There's nothing the dealer can do until Hyundai Canada approves the update. Pointless endeavour in Canada to contact your local dealer. Once again, Hyundai are not listening to their customers. Until, Hyundai Canada step up to the plate, I won't recommend the Hyundai Ioniq 5 to friends/family. I suggest hurting their profit will speak volumes. For those that have already pre-ordered one, tell your dealer to enable the feature prior to picking it up, otherwise you will pay them once it is.
     
  9. They listened:
    " A new battery conditioning system will make this kind of experience more reliable. If you’ve plugged a DC fast charger into the nav system, the car will use some of the battery’s energy to make sure the pack is at the correct temperature to ensure it can take advantage of that much direct current, even if it’s extremely hot or cold outside. Some Ioniq 5 models will get this battery preconditioning technology for 2023."
    Hopefully this can be software updated with existing 22 my cars;)
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2022
  10. Zen

    Zen New Member

    Thanks for highlighting this. I was waiting to drop a deposit on an Ioniq 6 when it becomes available. I'm hesitant because of the b.s. additional levies by dealers. This just makes another reason to be wary.
     
  11. Stevewallace

    Stevewallace New Member

    I am puzzled by this thread. When I D/C fast charge on my 2019 Kona EV ultimate, I can hear the fan start up in the summer to cool the battery when charging and I can hear it start up in the winter to heat the battery when charging if necessary. I rarely D/C charge in the winter. Usually I charge Level 1 when the battery gets to 60% or lower, overnight. The vehicle does have its own heat pump for the cabin and the battery. So my question is this, does not the Ionic have a similar feature? And since the Ionic 5 D/C fast charges twice as fast as the Kona EV, how much of an issue is this really?
     
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  13. This might help explain the issue in detail- note only for Ionic 5 manufactured before June 2022

    "
    • Session #1: 10% to 80% on a 150 kW DC fast charger at 23° F (-5° C)
    • Session #2: 10% to 80% on a 350 kW DC fast charger at 28° F (-2° C)
    • Session #3: 0% to 100% on a 350 kW DC fast charger at 32° F (0° C)
    In all three sessions, it took us exactly 30 minutes to go from 10% to 80%, 12 minutes (66%) longer than Hyundai's promised 18 minutes. "
    Simply put...it will cost you time and $, especially in Canadian colder conditions when DC charging without preconditioning feature;)
     
  14. Did they actually listen? Europe has the pre-conditioning, Canada is only a hopeful. My Ioniq 5 is a 2022 LR, AWD with Ultimate package ready for pickup in March, 2022. No information from Hyundai that I will ever get preconditioning. I don't trust Hyundai at all.
     
  15. I think your right to be doubtful. Between our collective ownerships of Kona and Ioniq EVs its become clear what motivates Hyundai corporate to do certain things or not. Its never because its the right thing to do or to improve their customers' experience. Its simply a much baser motivation for profit above all else and at least the parent Korean corporate has a sensitivity to the typical Asian loosing face premise. Basically don't expect much from Hyundai once they have your dollars and you won't be disappointed. As long as I understand the unadvertised ground rules I can work with that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2022
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  16. I have the prerequisite battery heater already; possibly the 2022s need both a firmware and software update. Better charging, especially in cold weather, is important and one of the key reasons I bought my Ioniq 5.
     
  17. Yes I believe its firmware update of VCM, entertainment unit ant at least one other module. There is some positive messaging posted on the Hyundai ioniq forum from US corporate that seems to imply they are actively looking at a solution for North American owners. So I guess that is hopeful news.
     
  18. Hyundai know exactly what the solution is. The same solution already in use in South Korea and Europe. More delay tactics. Can you provide a link to what Hyundai US have stated? Rumours don't cut it for me. I also read all of this was supposed to happen in Q1 2022 but hasn't.

    Hyundai, I upgraded from a 2021 Kona EV to this Ioniq 5 EV; screw your customers and it's the last vehicle I'll ever buy from the company. Ask GM how many vehicles they've sold to me since 1987. A grand total of 0.
     
  19. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member Subscriber

    That may bother GM, er now "gm," but not Hyundai, who will tell you your I5 works just the way it did when you bought it.
     
  20. Actually, no, it does not. No Ioniq 5 owner, without pre-conditioning, can ever achieve a 240 KW rate in colder weather. One of the reasons I bought this vehicle was due to the fast charging; last winter, after seeing how bad it is during the winter months, I was extremely disappointed in Hyundai in failing to take low temp charging into account. Time will tell if they actually do this for the original batch of 2022 I5s in North America. If not, next EV will not be Hyundai.

    If your winter weather isn't harsh and doesn't last more then 1 - 2 months, it's a great car but, that's not my scenario here in Canada along with many States in the U.S.
     
  21. Note that the U.S. information is simply a rumour. Only found one video on the subject and many forum posts but nothing concrete from Hyundai. Both my dealer and Hyundai Canada have been notified we need (not want) this feature enabled. There are no excuses.
     
  22. insightman

    insightman Well-Known Member Subscriber

    My 2021 MINI Cooper SE was EPA rated at 110 miles/charge. For 2022 the EPA upped that to a whopping 114 miles/charge. It never occured to me that MINI would be required bring my MINI up to 2022 technology. Being an early adopter, I accept the limitations of the 1st-gen package. That said, in 52 years of owning small sports cars, I've never owned a better or more fun car than this.

    I hope the preheating technology that would make your I5 acceptable requires nothing more than a software patch and that Hyundai is gracious enough to retrofit your vehicle gratis.
     
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  23. I've owned two EVs in my life, both Hyundai. I'm going back and forth with my dealer rep and advised him, my specific vehicle was one of the first ones manufactured for North America, well before the June 2022 date that Hyundai started shipping these "enabled" models here. It'll be my last one too if this isn't done.

    All Canadian models (except the base model) have battery heaters. In 6 months, I re-qualify for our Federal rebate program and I will start looking for a different manufacturer's EV to purchase.
     
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