So just passing along a cold weather experience that I had this morning. Weather was in the -10 to -15 Fahrenheit range this morning. I had a 155-mile trip to take. I had done this trip twice before on a 100% charge with the coldest around 25 F. I knew it was going to be tight to make this trip on one charge (assumed it could not be done), but I had charging stations (one being a nice EA station) on the way so was not too worried. Trip Distance: 155 miles Temp: -10 to -15 F Charge at start: 100% Range stated at start: 225 miles Range stated at state (when defrost turned on for a second): 160 miles Climate/Heat: Maybe used the defrost or driver-only heating for 5 minutes total during the whole trip (was all bundled up in cold weather clothes but still was cold as sh*t) Car: 2022 Niro has the cold weather package Speed: 70 mph for almost all of trip (99% on interstate) Memory: I was freezing during this whole time so my memory is a little hazy (even though I had planned to nicely document this trip) About 90 miles into the trip there was an Electrify America station which I planned to use if needed. As I drove, I was doing the math in my head to see how the delta between advertised range (starting at 225) differed from my range to home (starting at 155). So from a starting delta of 70, it was ticking down (this was expected). Delta was maybe 20-30 miles at the time of nearing the EA station turn-off. Decided to charge at the EA station. As I was freezing the details are a little dull, but I pulled into the EA station at around 50% charge. Sadly, even though EA stated all the chargers were operational, the charges would not start. I started to call EA, but after a minute on hold and expecting cold to be the issue (and hence nothing that EA could do) I gave up. Then I drove to a hotel a couple miles away which had a level 2 charger. I charged there for maybe 20 minutes as I walked to a gas station and had a warm coffee. I recall I left there with really no change in charge (around 45-48%) from when I pulled off the interstate. I quickly realized when on the road, that I was not getting home with that charge. I knew there was another level 3 charger at a car dealer 30 miles away, so I drove there (right on my path). All looked good as I powered up the charger, but it failed on a “isolation fault” (I think). A PlugShare user stated the charger worked just a day or 2 before. Then I used the backup option of a level 2 charger at a hotel across the street. This time, I was smart and went inside to ask the hotel staff if I could stay inside as I charged. Maybe 30-40 minutes later I had stopped shivering. With 45 more miles to go, the stated range was 65 miles (as I recall). I thought that would be enough of a margin to get home. As I now drove that last stretch, I saw that 20-mile buffer/delta slowly go down to around 3 miles. I could have pulled off for another level 2 charger about 6 miles (with a stated range of 9 miles or so) from home, but it seemed like I could make it home. Just after or before that decision, the car went to low power mode (might have that terminology wrong and that might have happened a mile or so earlier) and then quickly went to turtle mode (after my level 2 charger turn off). Got off the interstate 4 miles from home. At 3 miles from home, the car could barely get up a small hill (like 10-15mph), so I quickly pulled off to a closed business which I hoped had an outside 120V outlet (it did). Plugged her in, called my kids who amazingly picked up. They rescued me from freezing 2 miles from home. Came back a couple hours later to putt home. Not sure the point of my long-winded story, but I feel I had to tell someone . Lessons learning (maybe): 1) Rough guess is that my range at that temp (w/ no climate on) was about 130-145 miles. 2) Do not expect charging stations to work (even if the app says so) and especially in extreme cold. 3) Be patient when in a good situation (the second hotel) to let your car charge to the state of charge needed (with a GOOD buffer) 4) Definitely know the potential chargers along your trip (and all the backups). (At least I got this right.) 5) Be smarter than me
I think you did pretty much everything right, but should have waited a little longer to get those extra 5 kWh into the battery to make it home. I had almost the same experience once in warm weather, though:
That's very useful and thank you for sharing it. As a new NiroEV owner and someone new to electric vehicles I'm trying to learn as much as possible.
Certainly not saying I agree with everything in this article, but I stumbled upon it today: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/01/04/imagine-virginias-icy-traffic-catastrophe-with-only-electric-vehicles/ (sorry if behind a pay wall) I gave this linked page (https://www.naf.no/elbil/aktuelt/elbiltest/ev-winter-range-test-2020/) a look. Doing the math on the numbers from that test, it states a 21% (1 - 360/455) range reduction for the Niro (assume a model 2020 or earlier) was observed. From my trip, I would guess the range decrease (w/o climate on) was about 35% (1 - 145/255). I did not see in the article what temp they did their test at.
That article is weird. What if you only had, say, 1/2 a tank or less? Then you'd wish you had a horse. I'm a reasonable person--I don't expect an electric car to be as good as an ICE engine car for all situations. I'm planning a trip that will stress the battery's range and it's cold here. It might be a challenge.
I had a similar experience with my first (2016 30kwh) Leaf. Thought I could make a round trip that I had done more than once before in warmer temps. This time it was cold and the GOM was in steep descent and stage of charging dropping fast. I had to stop at my son's place about 34km from home and plug into the 110V. They were not home so I spent close to an hour walking around to pick up another 8km of range. The last few kms the GOM and state of charge changed to flashing dashes and the car was talking to me. It never went turtle but it was scary. I have done longer trips in the cold with my 2018 (40kwh) Leaf using FLO chargers along the way. FLO often has a couple of L2 chargers alonside it's L3 so that if the latter is broken or in use you can plug into an L2 and at least won't be stranded. Still, the experience is less than ideal. I do keep an old ICE car that I bought new 22 years ago and tell the tax man that's my personal car so I can claim full depreciation and operating expenses for the Leaf through my business. The 2018 was capable enough that I wasn't using the old ICE enough. The brakes rusted away and the gasoline was in danger of going stale. So I'm back to using the old ICE for those longer winter runs. The ICE produces waste heat and plenty of it which does make the whole thing less unpleasant. The use of EVs beyond local runs in areas with cold winters is going to require more charging locations along the way and more reliable chargers which I think will come with time. Range losses of 40% with extreme cold seem quite common across a number of different makes so we'll need to plan for this in vehicle specs when buying. I'd prefer a more robust charge away from home capacity than having to lug around a huge traction battery for mostly local driving. That being said I expect my next EV to have between 60 and 80kwh capacity to cover the bases for me.
We are leasing a Niro partly because we were not sure if a full-ev would be practical. These accounts are making me think it won't be. I have a work related trip to make to rural southern virginia, and would have been on I-95 south this morning. I rescheduled the trip to Sunday, to avoid rush hour traffic. There are no charging stations closer than 40 minutes to where I have to be, and it's cold. I'm going to make the trip as an experiment, but the above is not encouraging for long family trips
Until our charging infrastructure becomes more robust, it certainly requires one to think/plan out longer trips or ones in inclement weather. ICEs are more understood and flexible. For me, I almost never go on long trips, have a backup ICE if needed (have to drive this 155 mile route again this Friday and in a week), and for a special event (like family vacation) I could always rent a bigger vehicle if needed. It is kind of like just knowing the limitations of your vehicles and adapting. I use to own a small pickup truck, so I could go to the home improvement store whenever I wanted and the lumber/stuff would fit in the bed. I do not have one of those anymore, so I know the limited of what I can buy at the HI stores. If I need to buy something big, I can have it delivered or rent one of thier pickups. Still cheaper than owning a pickup where the bed is used many a few times a year.
Yes our thought when we were discussing the Niro was that we might end up renting an ICE car for long vacation trips. Silly as it may seem, this 27 hour jam on I-95 has me thinking about getting some emergency supplies--water, food, a candle and can heater, a blanket--and stowing them under the trunk deck. My late father in law, a veteran of the Korean war, always traveled with a coffee can and some candles n the trunk, because he remembered using a candle in a helmet to heat his tent in the Korean winter
In this particular case, with no DC fast charger available, winter mode is not your friend! The battery heater uses 2 kW. [copied from an earlier post, not sure which..] With winter mode ON the battery heater will come ON if the SOC is less than 33% and battery temp is -5 degC or less. It goes off when battery reaches 5 degC. This seems to be for conditionning the battery for an eventual stop to a fast DC charger.
That is not silly at all. I live in the upper mid-west, and all my cars have a winter emergency bag. Actually just setting on up for my son now.
So for whatever it is worth, I would have made a different set of choices. I would have driven slower, say 55 mph and run the heater. Lower speeds help efficiency and driving at 55 instead of 70 would have reduced your consumption by 30%. This number is supported by looking at Bjorn Nyland's consumption tests in Sweden. He sets the heater 68°F. So instead of 155 miles/64 KW = 2.4 miles per Kwh, you would have been closer to 3.1 miles per Kwh. If you have a heat pump, cabin heating is something like .75 to 2.5 kWh an hour. I have seen it higher, but not after it has gotten it has got everything up to temperature. My experience with the battery heater, is that it doesn't do anything, except when you are charging and at that temperuture - 11°F, the pack was very cold. I think you are in a colder area of the country, and when it gets that cold, I would stay home. At one point in my life, I drove a snow plow, so I have seen enough snow and cold on the roads
Something that will be a big help is a device called Quick220. Use this with a long extension cord to get L2 in many places. You plug the EVSE into it and one of the 2 inputs on it into the closes 110V plug. Then plug your extension cord into the second port one the Quick220 and start plugging that into any 110V receptacle you can reach. Like a split receptacle in your kitchen you ca get 220v and your charge time will be better than twice as fast I’ve been using one of the since my first EV… a 2011 Leaf without a hiccup
Did this trip again yesterday. Just for the heck of it, here is some data (for the first half of the trip before I charged at EA station which worked!!): Trip Distance: 71 miles Temp: 5 F (so 15-20 degrees warmer than last time) Charge at start: 100% Charge at end of 71 mile drive: 64% Battery usage detail from infosystem at the end of 71 miles: Drivetrain 98%, Electronics 2% (where I think the heated seats and steering wheel usage shows up) Range stated at start: 220 miles Range stated at end of 71 mile drive: 136 miles Avg miles/Kwh for trip: 3.0 (I recall 2.4 for my last trip) Climate/Heat: Maybe used the defrost or driver-only heating for 5 minutes total during the whole trip. But ran with my seat heater on medium the whole time and the steering wheel heater on "a lot". (did not use these during last trip) Car: 2022 Niro has the cold weather package Winter Mode: On Speed: 65 mph for almost all of trip (was at 70 mph for last trip) So my estimated range used (84 miles) was pretty close to the actual miles drove (71 miles). That equates to the car actually delivering 85% (71/84) of the stated range. So that is a 15% range reduction compared to the 21% in that Norway test and 35% in my last trip. The big differences between my two trips was mainly 15-20 degrees colder and 5 mph faster (both for the former trip). It appears the use of the seat and steering wheel warmer energy use is minimal. And the big difference was that the EA station actually worked!!!! But I bet that I could have made the entire trip w/o charging there.
