Kona EV range at cold temperatures (100% SOC range 228 km at -22°C)

The windchill was calculated using https://www.wpc.ncep.noaa.gov/html/windchillbody_txt.html.

Taking into account the camper vans use insulating window covers while standing, there must be a considerable thermal loss through the car front windshield.

Not sure about your New Zealand, but here in Canada the old houses still have got two single-glazed windows (two separately handled single panes with an air gap of some 15 cm in between). There are lots of such houses in rural areas. The people here are not rich as I found out though it is a G7 country.

With the current temperatures (-42C, windchill -50C), the outer single panes of the house are completely covered with frost (you cannot see through them), and the inner single panes start building up frost from the bottom though the house is heated by the natural gas furnace with the thermostat set for the inside temperature to be at +20C. Some windows are better and some are worse.

Now let us imagine that house moving at the highway speed of 110km/hr. I agree that is not possible but for the sake of this "experiment", it is not that difficult to assume that the frost will start building up more.

The humidity inside the house can vary for sure and if high it would affect the build-up considerably. Depending on the type of natural gas furnace, most of the new houses have got central humidifiers integrated. Usual indoor humidity might be around 50%. If the house is 101 yrs old and the furnace was installed in the early 1950s then there is no humidifier. But the house from 1920 is solid wood.

I have not measured humidity inside of a car but it will not be much higher than in the houses. But I will measure the humidity inside the car in case somebody would like to know and would like to argue. The only source of humidity in the car is people breathing. I can assure you the humidity is not from sweating. You do not sweat when you are cold. And the outside air at -40C is really, really dry. The "recirculate" mode is never used on highways in winter.

The front windshield shields passengers from the wind but not from thermal loss. I have never seen somebody in Alberta driving a car at 110km/hr on a highway with an open window at -40C sticking their hands outside. Not for a second. Everybody can imagine what it would do to their skin. It is done here only in summer when the outside temp is +30C. Some people here may be Canucks but even those Canucks are not primitives or savages. Some Canucks can freak me out. Like today. Not that it matters, but some of us, non-Canucks, may have two or three degrees, immigrated here recently, and are even able to read, write, etc. though English is not our first language. We are even able to save the lives of the local Canucks who get to ICU. And if a New Zealander comes we will happily put him on a ventilator as well.

Let us cut it short.

I think the car moving through the still -40C outside air at 110km/hr experiences a huge thermal loss on the front windshield as well as the side windows. That thermal loss needs to be countered by a powerful airflow heated at +27C.

The end.

 

I think it may show a degree, perhaps two degrees less (lower) when driving.

Today I went shopping (some 50km trip, about 25 km one way). The car is parked in a tent garage and the temperature if I remember correctly was -28C. After a km or two, it was -29C. When I arrived at the destination it was -30C.

This is a rural area. It is colder than in Edmonton.

When driving to Edmonton, once in the city, the temperature goes up. I would say by 4-5 degrees.

 

I started writing the following "The EV "electric" engine does not need that kind of protection. There is no grill, no rad. ... It is the battery that worries me. ...
The battery is protected by the BMS (Battery Management System). ... Perhaps you may know all that and I do not want to sound to you as some others sounded to me. ... "

Then I noticed you have got the same Kona 2019 Ultimate.

Ours is white. We got it in Feb 2019.

Upon the basis, of what I experienced, others may have their opinions, beliefs, experiences, though I like the idea of EVs very, very much, I started providing people if they ask me as you did now with the information that potentially can discourage them from buying EVs with the current battery technology.

If a friend asks should I tell him only the good and not the bad? Should I risk him later coming back and complaining about something I already knew?

Let us be excited about something but let us try to be objective.

Simply put, for the location where I live (several months with -20 or below) and for the needs of my family, an EV with the current battery technology may not be the best option. It is difficult for me to admit it but we are getting to that point.

We moved out of Edmonton as it has been becoming insanely expensive for our class. For immigrants. To buy a house there. We wanted to be green and we wanted to save on fuel. I was willing to wait six months for our Kona EV. Renting month by month different ICE makes and models. We did not have a car before in Canada. I did not need a driving license. I was commuting on an electric bicycle (30 km or more daily) and I loved it. So the idea of an EV was a natural next step as it is difficult to commute 90 km one way on an electric bicycle.

This is like a story so I should cut it short.

The Kona's officially claimed 415 km range drops to some 50% at very low temps. From my experience. 200 km at 100% charge. Others on this forum may strongly disagree with the number and that is fine. As it is not recommended to use 0-20% and 80-100% range too frequently, we are left with 60% (between 20 and 80%). 60% out of the 200 km is 120 km.

Our commute is 90 km. When in ICU the car is charged from 110V at these temps in order to be able to get home. Or charged from fast charger at the Londonderry Mall, which kind of sucks because sleep between several 12 hrs night shift is better in a bed than in a car.

There is more to it but I will stop here.

If you want to know more we can go on. I do not mind the time.

 

We got our Kona EV Ultimate in mid-Feb 2019.

Dec, Jan, Feb are the coldest. Saying it is constantly -20C or lower or much lower may not be an overstatement.

The first three weeks we were traveling geared up (snow pants, hats, mittens).

Then it paid off.

A guy in the right lane, at the overpass second merge to Hwy-16, lost control and went perpendicularly to our left lane with us driving at 100 km/hr. Popped up some 20 - 30 m in front of us. Kona has got something like "front collision detection with collision avoidance". It might have worked a little. It might have not. The main thing was me turning left to the median strip. Going through all the snow stopped the car. Luckily in between the light posts in the median. The other guy's car still scratched/cut the right side of our Kona all along. Some $17,000. If not in median then perhaps killing the other guy as we were aiming the driver's seat. Us in airbags. Possibly other cars behind us hitting us. It was just before entering Edmonton so the traffic was dense. It was a young guy. Just over twenty. I would not like to deal with the feeling of having killed somebody and passing that place twice a day.

It may be a story but that is not the main thing I wanted to say.

The main thing was us being dressed up for -20C or lower. We did not get cold while waiting.

In the end, the police took us to the dealership. I still remember the dealership guys' faces seeing us getting out of the police car.

You never know what can happen. It happened only three weeks after we got a brand new Kona EV.

We are trying to be bundled. To be ready. Sleeping bags and so on.

One more thing, related to the story. It was the first time I used the red SOS button to call for help. It worked.

The downside was that when using the other button, let me call it the "towing" button Hyundai refused to send a towing truck as I needed a police case number first. I did not like it.

I have not been using the towing button since then. We arranged annual AMA / Canadian Tire assistance. They do not ask for police case numbers.

 

A pleasure to have a conversation at this level. Sometimes it is coming with age.

Anything sensible and making sense is welcome.

I do not follow much Tesla. Just as any other EV. It was not for our pockets in 2018. It may be an excellent car in some respect but was not sure about the quality and the Tesla guys' willingness to discuss things openly. They definitely learn quickly how to make cars, software-wise they may not have much competition, their casting machines wow, and so on.

Hearing about the heating/air conditioning issues with such openness is nice. For me, that would be one of the main reasons why not buy Tesla. And perhaps somebody else, an EV novice, may find it useful as well. That is one reason I am here. Not buying Tesla does not mean I am against Tesla. It is just a consumer choice. I should have done my homework better in 2018 before signing a $66,000 financing contract for Kona EV. I was excited, not much information was available. We did it.

After 146,000 km in two years (nearly one year our Kona EV was waiting for spare parts or spare battery bricked at some parking lots) the most important factor of all for me is the range in winter and infrequent towing. We have got an old house, Kona is damn small and I cannot fit 8 - 10 feet 6 x 6 wood pillars inside. A small utility trailer comes in handy. Side note - we do not get a useable 100 km range when towing. When towing, we need to charge fully at the Londonderry Mall to make 90 km home. Fortunately, it is just several times a year.

When possible I am trying to catch with the development.

There is not much to choose from currently. You read about Lucid Air (800 km or so), at USD170,000 is a no-no. Cybetruck trimotor (800 km or so) maybe. NIO with a 150 kWh swappable battery looks interesting.

But in the end, I usually get to a conclusion I would not repeat as all those cars are still based on the current battery technology which I think is not suitable for cold temperatures. NIO promises a semi-solid-state battery and it will have to be seen. In any case, I would not buy anything which has not been on the market for several years and all the major issues have been resolved.

I will be waiting for the 100% solid-state battery with the 1000 km range. Those 1000 km would translate to some 400 - 500 km in winter. When towing the range loss is about 60% as mentioned in the recent article about Rivian truck. And when towing in winter I do not know what to say. I will make it up. That 1000 km might shrink to 200 km. It may bring unwelcome comments on this forum but be it. No more EVs till then. It does not make sense to make compromises for me as tough and weird it may sound.

Before any future EV I will install a 5 or 10 kW natural gas CHP appliance producing both heat and electricity. The electricity should be around 3 - 6 cents / kWh. Currently, we pay in this rural area serviced by ATCO over 20 cents per kWh for our overnight charging. We charge every night pretty much. In summer to 80%. When it gets cold to 90%. And when needed to 100%. Our monthly electricity bills may get to $400 ouf of which only $120 is electricity (kWhs) and the remaining $280 are various fees (distribution, transmission....). I am not buying it. We are running our natural gas furnace 6 - 8 months a year so why not kill two birds with one CHP.

There is so much that could be said not in favor of the current battery technology. It is not meant in a negative sense.

Kona's battery is some 500kg, approximately one-third of the total weight. Let us talk ambulances. The weight can be between 4 and 6 tons. That would mean a 1 - 1.5 ton battery. Not feasible with the current technology. You need a life support tech in an ambulance, not a monster battery. I can be wrong but I cannot imagine all-electric ambulances in Edmonton in five years. Maybe in ten years.

Sometimes, the whole EV thing seems to me as if we, consumers, are the lab mice on which new technology is tested.

Why not on ambulances first? Lots of people would die in winter because the ambulance "would not make it because of the range, was not available because it was charging several hours, etc.." but it could bring the current battery technology issues to the public awareness. This paragraph is extreme but people may get the point when presented with such a scenario.

Happy New Year.