Will free charging kill EA usefulness for long distance travel

Discussion in 'General' started by solarjk, Oct 30, 2021.

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  1. Taking "reservations" for now. My takeaway is that if one company is rolling this out, others are too. I would wait for a Siemens or Matsushita version. To be clear - this requires a vehicle that will output power through the charging port.

    My current KIA Niro EV will not do this.

    https://buy.dcbel.energy/#/
     
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  3. I would suggest that people make choices like this when the pocketbook economics are compelling. When Skywell brings in a sub $30,000 cdn 7 seat SUV - all electric, the choice won't require compromise. If it's cheaper upfront, and cheaper to operate there's no math required.
     
    bwilson4web likes this.
  4. SouthernDude

    SouthernDude Active Member

    Well, it's the only solution that will get mass adoption. Telling people to rent a car whenever they leave town isn't going to cut it. It just paints EVs as being inferior to ICE. Why do this?
     
  5. Except they can't, and won't be able to for more than a few years. There are fewer filling stations, and they take longer. Road trips will require extra hours, not minutes, for charging. Not everyone can charge at home, so people who live in rental homes, places with unreliable electrical service, or in multi-resident buildings have to make other plans to recharge.

    It's all possible (plan for more time, charge at work, make stops at charging stations before you get home), but it's simply not the same as owning and driving an ICE. People (especially the manufacturers) want it to be, and it will be in 5-10-ish years, but it's not now.
     
  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Called fast DC chargers, not filling stations, there are two alternatives: CCS-1 or SuperChargers. We have experience with our 2014 BMW i3-REx, CCS-1, and 2019 Std Rng Plus Model 3, SuperCharger:
    • CCS-1 network - unreliable, only 2 of 3 attempts in 2016 worked. The failed attempt used the range extender engine to motor home. Worse, it cost $24 in CCS-1 charging versus $6 in premium gas for the 120 miles between Huntsville and Nashville. Sad to say, even the most recent CCS-1 models are too often coming with ~100-150 kW maximum charging rate. It is not just the charger but the vehicle battery management system too. So our 2014 BMW i3-REx had a maximum charge rate of just under 50 kW and took ~45 minutes for a full charge which too often would not reach the next CCS-1 fast DC charger.
    • SuperCharger network - never been stranded, it costs about $3.50 per hundred miles. If you stay overnight at a free breakfast and charging motel, it drops to $3.00 per hundred miles. Have found rare, failed chargers but simply moved to the next one and kept going on. We drive to a fast food restaurant for biology and sack meal. Then to SuperCharger for 20 minutes while eating and stretching. Then drive about +2 hours to the next SuperCharger.
    • Driving 650 miles to Coffeyville KS or Stillwater OK, takes about 14 hours in the Tesla EV versus 12-13 hours in our former Prius or BMW i3-REx. The Prius and BMW i3-REx meant we always arrived beat. The problem was too few biology breaks that wears you down.
    • Home charging is about 1/3d the cost per mile compared to gasoline and great. But you have to look at your resources and plan appropriately. Always be willing to 'negotiate' a better charging option with the property manager or property owner.
    Bob Wilson
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2021
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  8. Or called L2 EVSE, or called Superchargers......they all do the same thing of providing energy to the battery. They're all "filling" the battery. It's a term to collectively describe what they do - a place filled with EVSE of various speeds and power levels.
    You don't have to convince me to drive a BEV! I'm a happy Tesla driver.....but my post was about how they can't yet be used just like ICE cars. They have great benefits, but they do require a different mindset to, as you said, "look at your resources and plan appropriately".
     
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  9. SouthernDude

    SouthernDude Active Member

    This is only true for certain vehicles in the short term. Far more infrastructure will be built out - there are plans everywhere for it. Secondly, battery technology is steadily improving to allow for faster charge times and car ranges are increasing.

    The next generation of EVs will be able to travel 500 miles with less than an hour of charging, which is fine for most people because few can travel 500 miles without stopping at least once. The battery tech will continue to improve from there and charging speeds will improve.

    Most drivers can already charge at home and many rental places already have some charging infrastructure available. More apartments and hotels will put out infrastructure as more EVs sell. No need to force it.
     
  10. Yes, which is what I said; thanks for making my point for me. It's where we're all going, but we're not there now. Now, if people want to drive electric they have to mentally be prepared that they can't drive it like they do an ICE (that's the paradigm shift I wrote about). That's especially true for those in rentals and apartment buildings, who won't be able to charge at home, until - according to you - they wait more than a few years until the number of EV sales rise. The percentage of EVs on the roads in the US is only about 2%; while that number is growing, the rate of growth is slowing. It's not as if this change will be here in the next couple of years.
     
  11. ENirogus

    ENirogus Active Member

    When I got my EV, it was years after deciding I did not need a truck. I bought a trailer ~4 years ago with this in mind, not actually thinking of an EV. I plan on renting a truck to haul anything I need to haul larger than my HF folding trailer will carry.
    What percentage of the population owns vacation property? Vacation property that is more than 4 hours away? And owns only one car?

    When I made my decision, I searched back 8 years, and the amount of times that I had driven anywhere where I would need to charge on the road, at all, where I was not trailering a car or something large enough that I had no plans to own a vehicle capable of doing it?
    Twice.
    And only one of those would I have actually had to do significant charging on the road

    What opponents of EVs and other right wing propagandists are pushing is that you 'cannot' do long trips in an EV because of long charging times. The current technology and a strategy of stopping more often as seen in the long trip videos means the difference is slight.

    So, once every four years, yes, it will take me longer to take a longish trip.

    Meanwhile I save time every week not going to the gas station.

    So, it is actually the opposite, EVs are superior in the amount of time 'wasted' day in day out, and the trade off is that on a long trip they take slightly longer.

    4500 miles in, never charged anywhere but my garage. 20 second plug in[I timed it] rather than 2 miles out of my way and 5 minute fillup once a week.
    Conservatively, I spend 5 hours a year going to and at the gas station[50 times a year, 6 minutes total each time driving+pumping]

    It will take over a 1000 mile trip every year for my EV to exceed that amount of time 'wasted'


    So rather than spending cumulatively hours going to the gas station, I will every few years spend perhaps an hour more on a long trip
     
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  13. You actually make a good point here, but I wish you would keep politics out of it. I have made several long trips in my Kona EV that I previously did with an ICE car. And that EV is far from having the fastest charger. Yet it took about the same time to reach my destinations. As you say, filling an ICE car up at gas stations is wasted time, as you still need to eat and take bio breaks. I have told this to my non-EV friends many times, but they are still skeptical. But I am winning, because they too now are looking at new EVs coming out and which would be the best to buy.

    Right now we still have one ICE vehicle which is used to go off-road and pull our boat trailer. But just a matter of time, before that will also be replaced with an EV. It will be a financial decision, too, though, and so far the ones I am looking at now can't justify that change.
     
  14. I think that time is already now, with only import restrictions keeping low cost/high build quality Chinese EVs out of North America.

    There will be little fanfare, but those shopping *any* car based on price will find more choices than our legacy makers wish to offer.

    https://insideevs.com/features/496823/sandy-munro-chinese-ev-dominance/
     
  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    I thought the time was March 2019 when I bought a Std Rng Plus Model 3 for $24k after trade-in.

    It is kinda an individual decision.

    Bob Wilson
     
  16. What I meant re the time for me, is that there is no BEV available just yet that can take me to my cabin in the summer (rough FSR) and pull my boat, that would make financial sense to replace my ICE vehicle. And the Hummer and Ford Lightning are certainly not candidates to do that. The Solterra might. And we will always need a 2nd vehicle to drive.
     
  17. FSR? Forgive my ignorance. I don't know this acronym.
     
  18. Forest Service Road, originally built and used by loggers,... now for recreation and access to wilderness areas. Sorry, it is a label very familiar with off-roaders.
     
  19. Gotcha.
    My forays into BC were either on paved roads, or by boat.
     
  20. That's me, but no need to tow any vehicles - it's the reason I switched from a Leaf to a Tesla. It's only the last 5-ish miles that are on an unpaved road, and I pass 3 Superchargers along the way before I get there.
     

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