Will free charging kill EA usefulness for long distance travel

Discussion in 'General' started by solarjk, Oct 30, 2021.

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  1. They definitely better than nothing. A 10 hour charge gives you 50ish miles. I take that (and have done so) over a hotel that doesn't have any plugs. I'd prefer a LVL2 but I'll take it. They could also put some 240 NEMA 14-50 out there. I'd bring my own LVL2.
     
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  3. Bruce M.

    Bruce M. Well-Known Member

    Target stores seem to be making an effort to have L2 chargers at lots of locations. Most here in San Francisco are Volta stations, which are always free, but I've also seen Targets with ChargePoint stations where the first 2 hours are free. I presume Target is paying ChargePoint something to provide the service as a convenience to customers. In any case, it's a great idea. As for hotels/motels, EV charging is becoming more common but still not the norm. I stayed at a motel near Pinnacles National Park last spring that got my business because they had charging -- it was kind of out in the boonies and being able to charge overnight was comforting. Two L2 plugs for a fairly small establishment was fine. I only saw one other car using it the 3 days I was there.
     
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  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    I've napped with them. A lot of folks don't realize the ends of motels typically have a 120 VAC outlet used by daytime maintenance staff for leaf blowers and such. Park at the end and find the outlet. Carry 15 A rated extension cord, plug-in, and sleep easy.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  5. ericy

    ericy Well-Known Member

    We found some free 120V plugs at a NJT train station a few weeks back - it was perfect for us, since we were going to be in NYC for a few days. By the time we got back, we were back up to 80%. A L2 would have been overkill.
     
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  6. SouthernDude

    SouthernDude Active Member

    This isn't really a problem. The point of this stuff is to get funding for Electrify America. This isn't really "free" charging. It is embedded in the cost of the car or the manufacturer is doing it out of pocket.

    Yes, it can incentivize people to use the DC chargers when they are not on long trips, but who cares? Like I said earlier, this is done to increase funding for EA. Any charging bottlenecks will be a short term issue.
     
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  8. I suppose there's an ideal distance from city centers that will discourage this use model. Given that brands like Polestar are rolling out free Lvl 2 chargers (Volta) in existing and underutilized shopping malls I'm not convinced this will be problematic.

    Given the current high cost of purchase or lease, most of us getting an EV are in a demographic that already installed charging at home.

    Since my full charge costs .20 usd/kwh convenience trumps savings.

    https://m.facebook.com/voltacharging/posts/3344486625611981
     
  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Regardless of direction, the ideal charge profile:
    • 100% SOC - first segment. You're rested and driving 3+ hours works on biology and making trip progress.
    • Tesla
      • ~40-60% SOC - subsequent segments, just enough to reach next fast DC charger with minimum 30-10 miles for fastest charge speed (Tesla triangular charge curve.)
    • Square charging curve
      • up to 80% SOC - these vehicles get their fastest charge rate when the charging voltage reaches a maximum
    Bob Wilson
     
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  10. SouthernDude

    SouthernDude Active Member

    Things are still in the early adoption phase. Any business models around charging or certain charging strategies you see now will likely not be happening when EVs are mainstream, so I'm not concerned with any temporal market state.
     
  11. Bruce M.

    Bruce M. Well-Known Member

    Exactly. The landscape will keep evolving for some time, and some things that seem to make sense now will look very different in 10 years. Enjoy the ride, but know there will be some bumps along the way.
     
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  13. This particular objection; that there aren't many public chargers and highway travel is inconvenient- feels like a deliberate misinformation campaign.

    I can't remember the last time I drove more than 4 hours at a stretch; that's about my threshold for getting on a train, trudging through an airport or hiring somebody to ship something for me instead.

    When the average Schmoe realizes how easy it is to just plug in when you get home, they'll wonder what the fuss was all about.

    Toss in the possibility of using your car to backup house power during a blackout and the line to buy an EV will quickly fill.
     
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  14. No, it's not making things up like a misinformation campaign, it's taking advantage of a common myth. People have this fantasy that will do all these long road trips, to see Gramma, the fall leaves, the maple syruping, whatever. Few people actually do it, but when they think about what they want from a car, that's it. They don't want to think that they never do those trips they want to do, and the certainly don't want to consider renting a car for those infrequent trips when they already have a car.

    It's hard to tell people they're lying to themselves and are making a huge purchasing choice based on a fantasy.

    Now that's a fantasy too. It's not a realistic possibility for "the average Schmoe".
     
  15. SouthernDude

    SouthernDude Active Member

    The concern that people have is that they will forget to plug in the car the night before. One-way 250 to 350 mile trips are far more common than EV advocates are willing to consider. You may not, but it's very common around holidays or summer vacations.

    Why would anyone spend $25-30k on a new car that still requires them to rent another car whenever they leave town? This is madness. I have no clue why anyone actually believes this talking point when it is obvious that 90%+ drivers don't care that much to buy an EV. With this same line of logic, you should be driving a moped/motorcycle everywhere and rent a car whenever you need to transport people or things.

    I guarantee that people take one-way 250-350 mile trips more often than you think they do. This isn't hypothetical.
     
  16. You're describing the reason I keep my 2007 Highlander with 220,000 miles (on the original drivetrain) around. Nearly 20k on the clock behind the wheel of my Niro EV last year, less than 1000 in the Toyota.

    In practice, I charge up once every 4-6 days sort of like when I still bought gas.

    I live in pleasure boat country, and concede there's still plenty of demand for F150s, etc. That's a huge market segment I think EVs are poorly positioned to address.

    Surprisingly, I think service vans (think last mile delivery, like UPS) will see competition for fleet orders before personal trucks take off.

    It's important to parse this out: this is another choice, and I like having choices. For me, and lots of other wage slaves the EV or plug in hybrid is just a quieter (and often) cheaper way to get around. Even at .20$/kW I save money over using gas.

    I don't think that's enough to persuade most buyers - not at current EV prices.

    All this misses the key strength of driving an EV - it doesn't use much power at idle. The "killer app" for EVs isn't hauling an Airstream to the KOA - it's not running out of gas while you're at a standstill on the 285 or in your taxi waiting on fares.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2021
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  17. Where I am, EVs are a lot more than that, but the truth is that the financial savings of an electric car will more than pay for multiple weekend car rentals.

    Driving an electric car these days requires a paradigm shift......and people don't like that.
     
  18. SouthernDude

    SouthernDude Active Member

    Sure, there are certainly people who choose to own both an EV and and ICE for occasional use. This just doesn't make sense for or to most drivers. A hybrid or plug in hybrid can drastically reduce gas usage in general.

    When I buy a new car, I will not keep my current car. This doesn't make sense financially. I don't want to pay the insurance or registration on it. Think a lot of other people would think the same.
     
  19. SouthernDude

    SouthernDude Active Member

    lol. EVs do not require some major paradigm shift. People will use an EV just like they use an ICE, except they can charge the EV at home. Thankfully all the car manufacturers are making EVs to do this instead of low range cars and telling people to just rent a car whenever they leave town, like what you inexplicably want.
     
  20. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Their loss.

    Bob Wilson
     
  21. There. You've stated your solution.

    Satisfied?
     

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