vol(T)swagen by (T)esla

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by 101101, Apr 3, 2021.

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  1. 101101

    101101 Well-Known Member

    It is important to remember that VW isn't really going green. Pay attention to its charging strategy which is based off dirty shale. It is still scamming. But its getting better as it is about to divest Porsche because Porsche is full of dinosaurs that want to use syn-fuel which is the same level of fraud as hydrogen. Daimler soon to be Mercedes (only) is also divesting its truck division to free itself of the hydrogen fraud. I think the German companies right now are pretty bankrupt in real terms and are hiding a bailout behind green spending. But at least VW and MB have ceased ICE development. Also important to be very honest about where VW is. Take the ID4, while it is not compliance which is clearly laudable (even if VW is still incredibly dishonest about its current ultimate aims) it is still the same gap Blackberry faced with iPhone and trying to pay Edmonds or others to like about things like the difference between WLTP and EPA won't help. Its so funny- just take a look at what ultimately happened with Taycan's charging speed. Also can't continue to rely on stuff like removing a Tesla rear window and then claiming it fell out on the freeway. When a competitor like Tesla is focused on quality that isn't going to work- look at the results in China on quality. Still VW taking out the trash by firing Porsche and MB doing the same with its hydrogen truck division is hopeful.

    So much investment takes its direction from state policy. I think fossil fuel spending as policy and direction came out of the way WWII ended. It was determined then that we needed a global security state to prevent nuclear war. There would be a single power or an apparent bipolar power but only apparent to lend stability and longevity. The US in particular would pursue fossil fuel imperialism whereby other non-captive or occupied nations were denied more reliable nuclear and kept on fossil fuels so their energy supply could be cut if need be and of course they were denied nuclear weapons and both fossil fuels and nuclear were used as justification for outright invasion, overthrow or economic warfare through sanction. The point was to use energy and tech suppression (should have had Thorium long ago) as a means of achieving stability. But that has all changed because of AI. As Putin has said, whoever masters AI first rules. The new threat paradigm of AI has created room in policy for addressing ecology and also accelerated efforts to harden the monetary system as with the SDR-fiats-bitcoin system now emerging. By the way I think only bitcoin will be allowed (others that are not fiat or SDR will be banned) and also that bitcoin has always been a US state project decades in the making.

    I think Tesla is the biggest threat to Microsoft. Tesla is not a software company, Tesla is not a energy company, Tesla is not a manufacturing company (even if that manufacturing is a primary long term tangible advantage that can be explained to people,) no Tesla is a AI company pure, raw and simple. Musk's favorite book is Super Intelligence. Have you read it? I have. Neural Link is a hedge and Mars isn't far enough away and Open AI strayed. So Tesla is undertaking the project directly. People have to realize that even narrow AI can make the world into a dream or nightmare we no longer recognize. There are all these fortune 500 companies happily loading up Palantir's borg OS which is hilarious as they have in essence outsourced their own management to the borg. It is like Daemon OS from Daniel Suarez's bestselling fiction books becoming real. As Apple's Tim Cook has pointed out, self-driving is the key to AI. And Tesla got Google's main guy (in truth) and Tesla has clearly solved that and knows the winner take all game. Tesla does its own enterprise software. Suspect this is part of why Oracle's Ellison liked Tesla. Microsoft on the other hand has scrambled after the crumbs of Musk's Open AI which Musk tossed- surely many researchers have already bolted from that sacrilege and others are pending if not for the imposition of dissuasive but temporary non-compete agreements- but imagine the morale on that- they surely don't give what's left their best. And what did MS bring to the table? A Cerebras Systems exaflop machine can be bought for 2 million $$- it wasn't money- the influence of MS could have been what caused the straying from ethical purposes in the first place. MS has a quantum computer effort but what will that come to? Everything MS does and has is vulnerable to self-coding AI. MS is a company that pushes gouging subscriptions for products it never improves, Excel is a perfect example even at the skin deep interface level its horrid. We are still paying for its terrible text editor. What does it have Azure? It got beat by a used book reseller in web services, it got beat in search by an ad spammer. It got beat in phones by one foot in the grave Apple. It got beat in social media by a spyware pusher immortalized in the highest grossing entertainment product of all time as "Life Invader." In some ways its most successful current product is a toy it sells to teens. There is a cloud over MS- Gates resigned from the boards of Berkshire and MS recently- curious. Was he a Nikola investor- I'll bet he was. Those Sandy Munro comments that were pro hydrogen- saw those coming miles away and that is what the influence/coercion or outright bribery and/or blackmail of sponsorship and its ilk look like. Could see that just by the shills Munro would show up with on autoline and the questions the guests they would have on would ask. Munro seems to have tried to prefigure it to soften the twisting he must have saw coming by saying he had hydrogen wrong for decades. But people get leaned on or give that impression. Tom Nash around that time said a natural gas pipe fitter (really?- hydrogen embrittles such piping) tried to pay him to review its business favorably then tried to threaten him Nikola style when he wouldn't- sound familiar?

    We need conflict of interest free public information systems. What we have right now are systems where corporations wage war in the court of public opinion with what amounts to the equivalent of never ending legal representation in a race to the bottom on lying and obfuscation. These pied pipers of shale hot air like Gates and Buffet and shale obfuscators like Bury that helped get the public caught in that bubble of austerity and poverty- what do they have to say now? They don't want to discourage further vestment by throwing out false vestment? Gate's favorite Vaclav Smil said if you get enough battery storage a 100% wind and solar system is all that is needed or desired- Tesla is checking that box and all you need is the first tech that will scale and meet threshold cost and ecology. You can see the numbers that support that in Tony Seba's newest Rethink X reports. There is a sense in which fossil fuels are not solar sourced any more than Thorium is but another sense in which the energy in their atoms was one way or another deposited/distributed in the core of stars. But it turns out that from a practical stand point in terms of distribution, efficiency or utilization and Smil's favorite logistical chain (for him growth is just logistics) and knock on effects, fossil fuels are just not practical or economical or sustainable. In CA we are still paying about 20x more than the current and dropping CA battery backed solar cost for energy at the utility scale (which will always be more expensive that post Seba's God point local PV and storage or roof top.)

    Noticed that Musk has been added to the board of Endeavor group in pre IPO. Suspect Starlink will get a Pravda. AI may help with the truth matching. We need a way for the public to have an institutional memory and have something like a hyperlinked following of the money on every media organization down through the interlocking of their boards and their investors and the articles they have paid for and got paid for by whom for whom and from whom with the underlying agenda and meta narrative exposed and cross correlated like a Strong's concordance of lies. Also need retrospective stats. And need the same following of the money of every paid liar journalist that exists to self-enrich off misleading the public about the public interest. In this way their own history discredits them like a drug label of side effects. And for services that try to anonymize propaganda like the AP just print who funds and writes their bot software that writes their articles and temporally correlate their stories to known current agendas for historical reference. Love to see a 4chan style open source police them. We have to dissuade the public from consuming paid lying even for entertainment value. There are jursdictions like the UK that seem to have laws against the public knowing the truth- important to directly resist that kind of BS especially where the UK has no jurisdiction- to keep that kind of defacto gag order from spreading.

    Lets remember where Tesla is at now. Buffet having to hide having to invest in Tesla. Toyota partnering again with Tesla. VW buying credits from Tesla. GM buying credits from Tesla but not wanting to admit it. Stellantis buying credits from Tesla but doing hydrogen blather to try to atone. Apple buying Tesla's batteries. Tesla's FSD being characterized by Munster as horrifying because it was so frighteningly good. That's called winning.
     
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  3. 101101

    101101 Well-Known Member

    Just a note, Nikola made the mistake of announcing the actual specs of the Iveco Tre and relative to Tesla's offering they are rolling around on the floor laughing your arse off bad. They subsequently tried to obfuscate. But to put in context it was about 1/4 as efficient at the truck level (at best- and maybe 60x less efficient across the full stack) had trouble reaching and sustaining 45mph- does that sound like it accelerates fast?. And as we know despite Milton its charge time was 45 minutes from Nikola's tech director not 8 minutes. It could only go about 40% as far but needed almost as much battery 750kwh (does that have to charge before leaving- bet it does but maybe not all the way as it needs room for regen) and guess there is at least as much in hydrogen in kwh or it wouldn't be a hydrogen truck would it? Also much more expensive. And more to break like clogging air cleaners like in the Mirais. Thinks its light? Does a redundant amount of battery sound light- look at the weight and performance of the Mirais- they comparatively suck. The performance was so bad Iveco didn't even bother to make it aerodynamic. Also at least 3x more pollution but maybe thousands of times more pollution when this is just a NG ploy. Then think of the leaking of hydrogen a tank will completely leak out in 5 years (some batteries are up to 100 years) and think about losses and dangers from having to store hydrogen cryogenically cooled as a liquid under pressure and think about how it embrittles pipe lines and how it takes 3x as many tanker trucks as gasoline trucks. Its just another attempt by the dumb inbred kind of rich people to tax the kept in the dark poor more they already do with wage slavery. It would mean giving up on the Paris accord. Despite being Iveco made the Tre seems nonviable- stuff is never going to get better. We don't have to keep bailing fossil fuel BS out- the laggards have had all the time they need to ditch it, its cheaper to just replace the infrastructure now, much cheaper and more reliable and stable to just cancel that stuff as a total loss and get it out of our mortgages, and pensions and insurance (health, auto, life, home owners)- it is time for the fossil fuel scam to end.
     
  4. Huh?

    LOL.
     
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  5. Bruce M.

    Bruce M. Well-Known Member

    I thought the person who started this thread had left us (or been removed).
     
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  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    I had a ‘discussion’ like this first post: (1) 100-to-1 word count, and (2) claims w/o backing facts and data. Makes it hard to take anything in that post as serious.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  8. I believe it was a 3-month timeout.
     
    Bruce M., Fastnf and R P like this.
  9. Should set up a separate little forum for him down at the bottom. I find his posts in General distracts from other more interesting/meaningful posts in this forum. I see them just as trolling, poking, and trying to invoke conflict.
     
  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    I would be happy with a character or word count limit and no consecutive posts by any of us.

    Bob Wilson
     
  11. I don't think @101101 is trying to provoke conflict. They just have a very strong point of view that they feel the need to fully express with few filters.
    That said, if they can't learn to put posts about Tesla in the Tesla sub-forum, or follow other simple requests, their next vacation will be much longer.
     
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  13. There is a limit. They just exceed it. Regularly. :(

    Please, @101101, know that brevity is not only the soul of wit, but also a much better form if you're interested in people actually reading your posts or lending credibility to your thoughts.
     
    Fastnf, bwilson4web and GvilleGuy like this.
  14. GvilleGuy

    GvilleGuy Well-Known Member

    Friendly reminder (which I only discovered recently): If there is a user whose content you no longer wish to see - you can click that username and select the "ignore" option. I tested it and these threads disappeared from my feed.
     
    ericy, Fastnf, Domenick and 1 other person like this.
  15. Yeah, at the least have him post topics in the appropriate forum, ie Tesla stuff in that forum, Toyota, VW, hydrogen, etc.
     
  16. 101101

    101101 Well-Known Member

    Thinking about vol(T)swagen's recent rhetoric about how it would have 60% of the EU EV market reminded me of how it is only planning on
    manufacturing 1/30th of the batteries that Tesla is aiming for over the next decade. Now we know that it thinks small and won't be replacing fossil fuel companies directly for energy even as it is a fossil fuel company literally as part of the fossil fuel logistics chain with 98% of its vehicles being tools to sell fossil fuels but does it plan to buy its batteries from Tesla? Will it end up buying its power from Tesla as well? How about its self driving tech? Says its going to do its self driving tech in-house? Who is going to help it SAP-Microsoft?
    Now if there were nothing but people like Herb Diess at VW it would be doing much better but we know that isn't so. Its major share holders are surely up to their eye balls in lame fossil fuel investments that's why its trying to lock its customers into having to buy natural gas at compatible charging stations or buy from oil companies for power at no discount. Those share holders are either facing taking a haircut on fossil fuels and won't let VW actually go green- remember Duesman saying VWs efforts would make little difference to climate or those share holders have against all odds made some money off fossil fuels and they'd like to continue debt leveraging instead of losing their principal because they don't want to pay taxes if they have to get out and not take decades doing it. Those share holders are dictating VW's policy.

    So there are 2 ways we know VW still isn't a serious Green company:

    1. Its writing stupid dirty dishonest contracts with natural gas companies to lock in its car buyers into buying obsolete toxic crap natural gas and not passing along cost savings and trying to keep charging rates inflated which means it also needs collusive monopolistic legislation to keep out competition and plans on lying its arse off claiming it has green products when it doesn't- more low carbon scam long tail pipe diesel gate type scamming.

    2. Its not proposing making a serious or even competitive amount of batteries and is only proposing making an amount of batteries that will make it dependent on outsourcing a core component as essential as EVs as ICE engines are to ICE meaning it is reducing itself to a repackage and still is not serious and is foot dragging on ditching ICE thinking Trump will get back in or it will succeed in bribing EU politicians to change their minds.

    There is still the issue of it not being honest about how far along it is. Its frunkless ID cars are still not ground up EVs. At least the Taycan had a frunk. But all the bs it pushed on Taycan charging never should have happened it surely knew the the Taycans would be quickly relegated to slow charging (a lot slower than Tesla's now) and were never charged as quick as they claimed nor charged as fast as Teslas- that false advertising stuff.

    On the other hand there is hope- VW is apparently divesting spinning off Porsche (sht canning it) presumably because its getting outsold by Tesla in Germany (call Tesla's performance or luxury or what every you want they make Porsche brand obsolete) and because its filled with illogical people who want to do synfuel- another fuel scam.
     
  17. Recoil45

    Recoil45 Active Member

    We need a button to report posts directly to the FBI on this forum.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  18. There should be a commit button...
     
  19. ENirogus

    ENirogus Active Member

    I stopped reading the OP at VW divesting Porsche. GO look at the corporate structure, it seems uhhh, unlikely
     
  20. 101101

    101101 Well-Known Member

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/volkswagen-considers-listing-minority-stake-in-porsche-11613661784
    https://carbuzz.com/news/volkswagen-may-spin-off-porsche-to-make-some-cash
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-18/volkswagen-is-said-to-weigh-listing-of-porsche-sports-car-brand
    https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/vws-potential-porsche-listing-signals-auto-upheaval-just-starting
    https://observer.com/2021/02/volkswagen-plan-porsche-ipo-boost-valuation-ev-shift-tesla-competition/
    https://www.automobilemag.com/news/porsche-and-volkswagen-what-happened/
    https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2021/02/22/commentary/world-commentary/volkswagen-porsche-stock-market-germany-automakers/

    Now you might understandably think that the Porsche family ownership stake in VW might make it hard to divest them (although getting rid of oligopic control for Quandts of BMW or Porche & Pieche of VW would be great for the wealth of the nation- the German common wealth so to speak and could be done by the state,) but VW doesn't want to scrap Porsche just because it needs the cash (as the media is saying) but because its serious dead weight and run by a bunch of fools that want to do incredibly stupid things like a total head in the sand Diesel Gate 4 (attempt) with synth fuels. Plus its an embarrassment, Tesla is outselling Porsche in Germany but it also outsells Lexus and Honda by 11x in Germany. And be real in too many ways Taycan was a dud that couldn't get it done- look at the charging system in the car its totally broken wonder how many people are quietly returning them or attempting to return them- media isn't covering it. And if they could have done better performance wise with Taycan they didn't because it would hamstring their useless ICE. The prestige of the brand has already been destroyed by arrogant complacency- you can't drive a car that makes you look stupid if you want to signal anything you certainly don't want to signal that you're clueless and hence vulnerable by looking stupid. Good riddance.

    But at least because of people like Diess for VW its not quite like Ford, GM and Chrysler- they are Sears, K-mart and Montgomery Wards respectively. They are that in so many ways but would be that just from not having anything like a viable self driving strategy or even viable way to self driving and have already lost to winner take all Tesla. That alone would put them under. And they haven't even noticed that Tesla is building actual capacity to take all of their market share and will have the capacity and will to do it, in fact is doing it- they are getting recycled and they don't know it- but I don' think there plants even get repurposed. America needs a change in its corporate culture. American corporate culture is parasitic, dictatorial and completely entitled and thinks its God given purpose is to leach. That makes their products and their organizations weak. The people that think like that are being evicted.

    One more thing- lets talk about quality. There were Mercedes from the 70s that would run about a million miles and 30 years later he paint hadn't faded and the nothing creaked and everything was tight and seemed new even if you didn't really take care of it. That was the German engineering and those were the people that built the legend- were talking about people's grand fathers- the sons and grand sons have been forsaking that legacy for more than 30 maybe 40 years and that is where we are today. There is no way to glory days there way through this. There are robots built like that now, they are on factory floors. We won't even have auto sector or auto analysts soon it will be the robotics sector. Take a look at the new Boston Dynamics dancing robot- take a really close look their first real practical commercial robot the handel platform robot that will replace people in warehouses in truck unloading, pallet stacking and moving and box positioning and stacking.
    that is where we are going next and that is quality's next focus.
     
  21. ENirogus

    ENirogus Active Member

    Well, Porsche owns 53 percent of VW, so whatever your political position, I doubt spinning off Porsche from the VW umbrella will be a money loser for them. ANd BTW, when you sell 4000 pounds of steel for 80000 bucks it is almost always more profitable than selling 4000 pounds of steel for 20000 bucks
     
  22. 101101

    101101 Well-Known Member

    VW is selling Porsche now because it doesn't think the brand will survive and they'd rather liquidate it off their books than carry the coming loss and it won't survive because its full of people who aren't intelligent enough to read between the lines and don't comprehend how destroyed and irrelevant their brand has become at the hands of a competitor. They don't even understand the technology they want to work with is non-viable- it is a senile brand with the wrong skill set and the wrong impulses and reflexes. As for the ownership of VW. VW should be outright owned by its rank and file employees excluding its management and supervision and board members as specified in an iron clad charter. And it should be set up better than Mondragon so its not begging a damn conflict of interest sleep with the management union back in. Its board members should all be retired employees who have put their assets in trust. It should not be owned by hereditary silver spoon elitists who oppose addressing climate change because they are selfishly too vested in fossil fuels and feel entitled to their positions based on the glory of their great grand-fathers. Same with Ford, both nations are getting a super raw deal on that one.
     
  23. Recoil45

    Recoil45 Active Member

    The Porsche brand will be around a lot longer than you, your kids or their grandkids will be.


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