Questioning about Hybrid, especially PHEV

I have a 2018 Clarity PHEV, about 20k miles on it now. I have taken it on a couple of longer trips, 1500 miles round trip Seattle to Sacramento and back, and a few longer drives in state. When I got it there were not as many choices as there are now. I had a case of range anxiety when I bought it, and I did not want a Tesla M3 or a Bolt. With the pandemic, my driving is reduced, I just filled my 7 gallon gas tank after about 2100 miles, so about 98%/2% electric/gas. My #1 dislike of the Clarity is that it sometimes starts the ICE when I don't want it to, and if I accelerate quickly, the ICE WILL start every time.

Fast forward to now, there are lots more choices available now, more chargers available (most charging is at home), and my desire to drive long distances is less. For those reasons, I have a Mustang Mach-E on order and I will sell or trade in the Clarity when that finally gets here. We will then have a LEAF, and Mach-E, and my 2004 F250 (which I have driven about 1500 miles in 2 years - not that far to home depot)

Honda seems to be very ambivalent towards EVs, they build good cars but their EV tech is marginal. I would not buy another Honda EV of any type. My Clarity has had zero problems, and is comfortable to drive and ride in, but there are lots of other choices available.

 

Which would you choose for the same $$ (all other things being equal):
1) PHEV with 100 mile range?
or
2) BEV with 400 mile range and 300 mile charge in 15 minutes?

 

I love my 2018 Clarity. No need for a level 2 charger, it charges overnight on 120V wall outlet. The dealer said it was unnecessary to change the oil when the light came on since I may have used 6 tanks of gas since I bought the car. I occasionally get a message that the motor is starting to circulate oil. But I have never seen another Clarity on the road. Honda need to push them more.
The window washer sucks, and the Entertainment system is slow.

 

We are all full in on driving electrically, so there's been a lot of discussion here about how to optimize weight for efficiency and the best possible design with or without an ICE.

But if you get your head out of the electrons and look up and out, you will see a world where most car buyers are definitely going to buy ICE, or are just starting to think about plug-ins.

For them, a plug-in hybrid with good EV range is an ideal first electric car. We may be comfortable with the charging infrastructure, or willing to wait around for a charge on occasion. They won't be.

 

That's interesting that your dealer said it was unnecessary to charge the oil at the recommended interval--and when the car starts sending you messages. I've also used very little gas, but I've been researching online whether it is necessary to charge oil--it's been over a year for me, and I wass going to change it earlier this year but COVID-19 made me put it off a couple of months.

I asked our dealer and read online that it was still recommended to change the oil even if you are nowhere near 1000 or 2000 miles running on the ICE.

Anyone else have opinions on this?

 

Usually the recommendation for oil changes is to go by the manufacturer's recommended interval (or, in this case, when the Maintenance Minder tells you to), OR once every year (whichever comes first).

You can read elsewhere in this forum, but the Clarity will 'bundle' maintenance actions. If you don't drive a lot of miles, the Maintenance Minder alerts you at around 6,500 miles to do a tire rotation, an oil change, and an overall inspection. If you just rotate the tires, and clear that portion of the code, then it will delay the oil change message. In my case, it pushed the oil change out beyond a year when I would have done it anyway.

Probably for many of us (who have a fairly high percentage of EV) once a year is the right answer. I am rotating my tires every 7500, and changing the oil once a year.

 

I think a lot of this low gas consumption must be blamed on the Covid lockdowns, with people driving A LOT LESS with way less freeway commuting, less freeway trips for recreation purposes etc, with mostly local trips to groceries etc. Hence people don't need to hit the HV button so much. At least, that's my case and I consider myself a rather average guy.

 

Everybody wants to have more EV range, but is it necessary? The ICE comparable is a V8 or V12 engine. Everyone likes to have a big V8 or V12 in their car, but for economic reasons 90% of the cars on the road have a 4 cylinder in them. So at some point we will have a similar situation with BEVs. The idea that everyone will drive around in a 400 mile BEV with 100 kWh of batteries is stupid.

 

Based on my research of weight alone, the phev should be more efficient.

M3 battery weighs ~ 1100lbs

2nd gen Volt ICE weighs 216lbs plus gas tank, exhaust, etc, estimate 100lbs = 316lbs + 18kwh battery (400lbs) = 716lbs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_small_gasoline_engine (Clarity should be similar)

 

It is true that if you took the ICE out of the PHEV and just kept the 18kWH battery, the car would be lighter, simpler, and cost less to manufacture. And if you live in city where your travel distances are short, public charging is widely available, and the temperature never drops below freezing, a BEV with ~45 mile range could serve your driving needs very well. No major manufacturer is going to build that vehicle though, because a $30k+ BEV with a 45 mile summer range is only going to appeal to a tiny niche market. I always chuckle when I hear the term "range anxiety", because how far you can drive a vehicle before running out of energy, be it gasoline or electricity, it is a very real physical limitation that the driver needs to consider. More range means more options to replenish that energy in a time and place that is practical and convenient and allows for sufficient reserves.

 

The Clarity PHEV has only 17 kWh of battery power. Honda already gave up on their Clarity Electric with its 22.5 kWh battery giving only 89 miles of range. You should check out the lively battery-removal thread that @nerd king started earlier this month.

 

The Clarity EV has been widely reported to have. 25.5kWh battery. The PHEV has 2, 8.5kWh battery packs wired in parallel to create a capacity of 17kWh’s. The EV has a 3rd pack wired in parallel for a total of 25.5kWh’s.

 

And that, in a nutshell, describes range anxiety.

We have to analyze and diagnose everything and then give it a name. About 20 years ago, friends of ours with a new young child, had to explain “stranger anxiety” to us before handing over the goods. You’d never guess that that kid is all screwed up today.

Maybe they shouldn’t have handed him to us?

 

Ahhh, but there is a mfg that builds that "~45 mile" range BEV. The used Nissan leaf w/o thermal management

 

At least this was true two years ago, when I got the Clarity instead of an Accord. With the ability to charge for free at work, which other car similar in size would have cost me approx 22.5K after the fed tax credit and Honda ZEV state incentives? We have an Odyssey for the long trips (NJ-FL and even cross country and back), so could have easily gotten a BEV if it would have made financial sense to me.

In 3-5 years (3 when I finish paying it off, and 5 when Honda Care expires) we'll see. I would love to get a 200 BEV priced and same size as an Accord.

 

What is the rated towing capacity for the 2019 Kona EV?

 

According to Hyundai Canada, the official tow rating for the Kona EV is 0kg (possible concerns of the tow gear impaling the battery?). The ICE equivalents are rated for 1,300kg, however there is some dispute between Canadian and American Hyundai about whether or not the Kona has a tow rating at all.

 

Yes, my interweb noodling revealed the same.

Typical factors when determining towing capacities are drivetrain, suspension and braking components. I have seen a few hitches come unstuck. It usually results in the towing equipment hitting the ground and the towed vehicle being separated, by an ever increasing distance, from the towing vehicle. This distance can increase rapidly should the gear decide to pole vault the towed vehicle.

I’d certainly give it another inch of thought before deciding to sell the truck and tow a trailer with a Kona EV.

 

The Kona is not rated for towing as opposed to being zero. But I said I was thinking of towing with a BEV not necessarily the Kona. The two models I had in mind were the Volvo XC40 Recharge Electric and the Mustang Mach E. Both are available latter this year The Volvo has a rated towing capacity of 3000 ibs which is more than I can load in my F250 bed, and comes with a factory hitch. The Mustang is also supposed to be rated for towing but I don't remember the exact amount at the moment. I primary use the truck in the winter for all wheel drive capability or to run to the hardware store to pick up things. Not planing on traveling with a trailer or going over 50 mph. Both of the Volvo and Mustang are available in all wheel drive

 

You originally said “the BEV” and the only mention of a BEV was the Kona.

I’m surprised the F250 has less than a 3K capacity. Bear in mind that if you get a single axle utility trailer with a 3500# axle, it will probably weigh at least 1000#, so you’ll be down to less than 2000# of cargo capacity before hitting the 3000# tow rating.

Do you currently tow the race car to the track?