2 charging issues

Discussion in 'Hyundai Kona Electric' started by Macone, Mar 28, 2022.

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  1. Macone

    Macone New Member

    FIRST, 2021 Kona, heated garage in Canadian winter, not charging above 355km. Have settings at 100%, full current, problem indicates 6.5 kw, and though don’t often need 100% charge, it does happen that I need maximum range once in a while. Need to know how to get really full charge.After unplugging vehicle, with no heat or other accessories on, it never shows even close to 400km available. Yes, it’s winter here (lows-10c, highs+10c), but heated garage (+8c)....and just stared up.... 355km?
    Secondly, I have tried charging at level 3 public chargers. Most around my routes are 50 kw, some at 100 kw. Tried 3-4 of these, and none charge at a rate above 7 kw, though again I have settings in car of max current, 100% charge.
    What am I doing wrong?
    Cannot sit at station to recharge for 8+ hours...again rarely, but need the juice sometimes.
    TIA
     
    electriceddy likes this.
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  3. Only AC charging current level can be set using the charge management screen. DC current level is determined by several conditions and is managed by the BMS by communication with the DC charger.
    What level (SOC) were you at when attempting to use the chargers, never heard of DC charging rates so low at not really cold conditions.
    It is not unusual for winter range to be 30% reduced compared to higher ambient (summer like) conditions. Give it a few weeks or so when the temperatures get mild for the (BMS to catch up) to show range closer to that expected 400km or more, and DC charging rate should substantially increase as well. If it doesn't, there may be a charging issue to be dealt with, likely on the communication perhaps software related end.
     
  4. Electric Rich

    Electric Rich Member

    Hi Macone, others will be more versed with cold weather range but, to me it sounds like the range is about right in very cold conditions.
    The car uses your driving history to give a guesstimate of how many KM range you will have. So if you have driven in very cold conditions with the heater on for the last few 'tanks full' then it assumes that is what you're going to do again next time. The Kona range is great but the cold and a heater will knock plenty off its normal range of 475km for example. If all the bars on the right of the dash show full, then its fully charged. The charging conditions dont set the range, your driving history and conditions does.
     
  5. Basing state of charge on displayed range is not the way to go. The displayed range depends on many things like driving habits prior to the charge, temperature, etc. You need to look at Battery Capacity or State of Charge. The " fuel gauge" on the dash gives you an approximation. You can get a % reading through the EV item in the menu system.

    Level2 (AC) charging: I think North American Konas, like Aussie models, come with a 7kW single phase on-board AC charger. (Some models, European in particular, come with a 3 phase 11kW on-board AC charger) In my experience, getting 6.5kW out of your single phase 7kW charger is within spec.

    Level 3 (DC) charging: The Kona is rated at 100kW max DC fast charging. A 50kW DC fast charger will yield about 47kW into the Kona. I haven't tried a 100kW charger, but a 350kW charger yields about 75kW into my Kona with a battery at about 30% in mild Aussie temperatures. Those rates taper off as the battery fills. I have seen 7kW coming out of a 350kW DC charger into my nearly full Kona. If you're only getting 7kW from a DC charger into a half empty Kona battery, something is wrong but I cannot begin to suggest what that might be.
     
    electriceddy likes this.
  6. First I heard of this, I want one!
    My understanding is ~77 kW during a portion of the charging curve;)
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2022
    Kirk and Ivan Salazar like this.
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  8. From Aussie 2021 model specs
    upload_2022-3-29_12-55-36.png

    I see what you're getting at, electriceddy. Marketing speak has outstripped real world. A real 100kW into the car would be nice;)
     
  9. Good point, yet to see a post on any Kona EV forum concerning a loss of capacity showing less bars @ full charge;)
    Edit...if it does give that sort of indication
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2022
  10. Macone

    Macone New Member

    I will give it a couple weeks to see what warmer temps can achieve re range displayed post charge.
    For the rate of charge issue....
    As for SOC at time of hooking up to fast charge, I think I was at around 130 km as shown on dash.
    Both times it wasn’t cold... probably around 12-15 c, mid 50s f.
    Right front m start of charge, both times, 6.5 kw second time, 7 kWh as displayed on dash.Both times the vehicle was off for 5-10 minutes before starting charge.
    None of this is a real problem 90% of the time. About once a month I do a trip to the city, about 230 km each way, with only an hour between turnaround, no where near a charge station. This means a stop on my way home.....and a 5 hour stop ( at 7 kw) is far from ideal.... and means I have to use the truck....at $80 per trip.
    Possibly in summer it can be done, but this is Canada, so, well....;). Thanx for replies.
     
  11. Other than the cold causing that reduced number the only other reason I can think of is if the single-phase is being drawn off a commercial or industrial 208VAC 3-phase supply, something I'm sure @electriceddy can comment on and I think is unique to N. America.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2022
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  13. Macone

    Macone New Member

    The settings screen shows both AC AND DC current level settings.... max and reduced. I was assuming all driver set parameters were overridden when button by charge port was depressed prior to connecting to level 3, or any, charger. Or is it only the scheduled charge that’s ignored?
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2022
  14. Macone

    Macone New Member

    Thanx all for the attention.
    Every time I’ve charged at home,level 2,40 kw charger, the rate has been 7 kw, and I know that this is its limitation. That’s not the problem, as I now understand the on-board system sets that rate. Every time, all bars show full tank after charging.
    I guess my more pressing issue is on the road fast charging.
    That is still only showing 7 kw, with @130km showing on the dash ,about 30%, and plugging into a level 3, 50-100 kw fast charger. Only once or twice a month, at most, do I need this to work as it should, and I’m not convinced temperature is the issue. I see lots of others doing quick charges when it’s way colder than now.
     
  15. All Evs have current limiting adjustment (charging current) restricted to AC only...240V or 120V (this adjusts the AC charging rate of the on board charger).
    DC current is handled by the DC charger, not the EV - IEC 61851-24
    If you are telling me that is incorrect, and that you can adjust the DC charging rate manually , than please forward us a picture showing different.
    Of course the maximum percent charge (target battery level) can be adjusted from 50 to 100%:)
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2022
  16. Macone

    Macone New Member

    As stated before, I'm new to this....only had the car a couple of weeks.
    I see my mistake now ;)
    I just misread...thought the second line was DC, not 120 ac.....my brain was coming from the screen before it. Apologies.
     

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    Last edited: Mar 29, 2022
  17. In addition to the sound advice offered previously about the range estimate (GOM) and charging behaviour I'd also add that, while you might consider Spring weather of 10-12° delightful (as do I) your car does not. You will see range drop pretty much as soon as temperatures drop below 20° or so. It's not huge immediately but you will see it. This summer, when temps stay around 24°-30° you will see your optimum range figures. It will be a warm memory when, in February at -30°, your range has dropped 30+% from the summer numbers.
     
    navguy12, electriceddy and Macone like this.
  18. The missing "elephant in the room"...how "spirited" is your driving style Machine?!?

    My friend has a Kona EV and drive lead-footed and his range is similar to yours. New to EV driving, the instant torque is intoxicating! Are you driving at elevated speeds like over 120kmh?

    I have the electrical twin, Niro EV, and consistently see 450km summer & 390km winter always charging outside in BC.

    I routinely drive to the Interior over the mountains and usually stop for a maximum of 40 minutes on DCFC enroute. My friend in his Kona does the same!

    I hope this is encouraging to you!
     
    Kirk and Macone like this.
  19. Macone

    Macone New Member

    After showing off to the lads the first couple days I have reverted back to granny driving.
    There's a certain amount of a challenge built into the old man to get the most out of a dollar,y'know ;)
     
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  20. Macone

    Macone New Member

    An update.....Success!
    So yesterday I drove the range down to about 30%, then headed to the fast charger at PetroCan...our most reliable, easy to pay(no apps,just debit card,
    but most expensive. I like they way they set theirs up, and the payment ease a definite bonus. I believe in my province that legislation will have to come into play to get the charging companies in line. too many issues.
    Anyways...got a successful charge!
    I believe my previous issues were likely due to there being too much charge in the battery before I started. As I said, new car to me, and I was eager to figure it all out, so may have been trying to charge too soon. Also may have not stuck with the charger long enough for it to ramp up to speed.
    The fast charger is "up to 300 kw" and started out slow..7 kw, but within a minute was gaining ground, getting to about 45kw. So I got about 45% charge in about 35 minutes.
    It's been a learning experience, for sure, and other newbies my benefit from the only advice I have....
    Patience!
    Thanx for all the help guys....most appreciated.
     
  21. BernieNS

    BernieNS New Member

    Hats off to Petro Canada (Chargers every 250 km or less from Halifax, N.S. to Victoria, B.C.) for "getting with the program". :)

    My experience after a year and 20000kms with a 2021 Kona in Nova Scotia:
    Summer, about 450kms
    Winter: can be down to 300kms, in worst drivable conditions, and/or pulling a trailer.
    Charge at home: can do 7.5kw but mostly use 3kw overnight.
    Fast charge: have seen anywhere between 10kw and 47kw, depending on location, SOC and temp. (dreaming of 75)

    No high-voltage or 12v battery problems. I have a BM-2 monitor on the 12v (a mixture of paranoia and curiosity), and the charging algorithm is still a total mystery, but so far it has never failed.

    All in, a very satisfactory experience.
     
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  22. Macone

    Macone New Member

    Good on ya...thanx for the input.
    Petro Can seems to be the only one, on my routes anyways, that has figured out the right way to go.
    Pull up, plug in, swipe your visa,debit, whatever, and you're in biz.
    The huge collection of apps, with wallets holding my hard earned cash, are now clogging up my phone,
    and I can't seem to get my money back from them.(Ok..only 4, but still...) There's 29 in my immediate area...that's nuts!
    Why do I want it back?
    I can, and will, deal with Pcan for my charging needs exclusively. They may be the most expensive, but the simplicity wins
    my business in future. It's still 1/3 the cost of gas, and their locations are easy to find,well tended, and usually come with a Timmies ;)
    My use wouldn't total more than $50 a month.....that in gas for the truck would me till noon tomorrow ;)

    I believe it's going to take a whole bunch of lobbying to get this streamlined and user friendly. I also think the lobby pressure
    needs to come not just from consumers, but the manufacturers as well.....they got the louder voices.


    Cheers.
     
    Mike Bearsails and navguy12 like this.
  23. BaylorBob

    BaylorBob Active Member

    Electriceddy I am puzzled. I have the 2021 Kona Ultimate EV and it has AC & DC settings to charge the battery to any level I set it to between 0 and 100% See attached Photos. Are you all discussing something else?
     

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